Still gonna win at least a share of the conference

[jfish26]

Not at the top you can't. Just count the national titles by each conference.

I agree with PHD the strength of the big 12 is that there are less teams and no teams that are shit every single year.

Ok, but you didn't say "better at the top." You said "better."

Now it is perfectly reasonable to judge a conference by how many elite teams it has. It is also perfectly reasonable to judge it top to bottom.

Dismissing the streak because of the Big 12's overall strength is...fine, I guess? But the point is that it requires a very particular way of looking at things (or, at least, a closed mind).

I'm not trying to dismiss the streak. Sorry if that's how it seemed. Not my intent at all.

I guess in the end, when thinking about it from a "Kansas perspective" winning the big 12 is easier than winning the ACC because the top isn't as good...we just don't have duke unc Virginia type top..we've got Kansas....and then whoever else is good in a given year.

Not dismissing it. Just saying the ACC is better, even when considering overall top to bottom, and recognizing there are less teams in big 12, because ACC has 2 elite programs...and then they also have UVA who has been on a hot run.

Big 12 needs another elite team....when is the last time someone from the big 12 got a 1 seed in the tournament that wasn't Kansas? Was it OU buddy hield year?

It would be very interesting to have someone with really good numbers (and algorithms) simulate the ACC over the last 15 years with only Duke OR UNC. And, shoot, add the one you take out to the Big 12. Run 10,000 sets of 15 seasons.

[Deleted User 75]

Virginia makes that tricky. They've been elite for a handful of years now competing for 1 seeds, even though they haven't seen tournament success....which brings us full circle on judging teams mainly on post season success.

I have zero doubt in my mind that if the big 12 had duke or unc that the streak wouldn't exist.

[jfish26]

Virginia makes that tricky. They've been elite for a handful of years now competing for 1 seeds, even though they haven't seen tournament success....which brings us full circle on judging teams mainly on post season success.

I have zero doubt in my mind that if the big 12 had duke or unc that the streak wouldn't exist.

There have been teams during the streak that were about that good. I don't think Virginia's been doing it so well for so long that you can say the ACC has been consistently represented by the same three elite teams.

[PhDhawk]

I mean, all you need to know about how impressive KU's Big12 streak has been vis-a-vis the ACC is remember that Miami won the ACC in 2013.

Even if you give them UNC, Dook, and UVA...Miami still won a conference title in the ACC. Yes, we've shared the title, but so did MD in the ACC...but when Miami won it, they won it outright.

[NDballer13]

In the last 14 years, Duke has won the title or shared the title a total of 2 times. Two. Last time being 2010. In that same timeframe UNC has won or shared a total of 8 times.

[NewtonHawk11]

Here's the thing. Vick's absence shouldn't hurt KU too much over the next 2 weeks. Because, as his mom said, he is needed for a "couple of weeks"

Home against oSu. They have 6 scholarship guys.
On the road at TCU, they have dropped off. Offense runs through Robinson, but that's about it.
Home against WV. Should be a win as long as they don't play stupid.

And in exactly 2 weeks, KU will be on the road at Tech. Now Vick had an average game with 13 points in a 20 some point win and Lubbock is tough to play in. But the best case scenario is that he is back for that game. But KU can manage in the 3 games above. I wouldn't be surprised if KU went 8-0 over the last remaining games. Or they could go 5-3 over the last 8.

The only thing is, I don't know if kstate has more than 3 losses remaining on their schedule. So KU will have to be almost perfect.

[jfish26]

Here's the thing. Vick's absence shouldn't hurt KU too much over the next 2 weeks. Because, as his mom said, he is needed for a "couple of weeks"

Home against oSu. They have 6 scholarship guys.
On the road at TCU, they have dropped off. Offense runs through Robinson, but that's about it.
Home against WV. Should be a win as long as they don't play stupid.

And in exactly 2 weeks, KU will be on the road at Tech. Now Vick had an average game with 13 points in a 20 some point win and Lubbock is tough to play in. But the best case scenario is that he is back for that game. But KU can manage in the 3 games above. I wouldn't be surprised if KU went 8-0 over the last remaining games. Or they could go 5-3 over the last 8.

The only thing is, I don't know if kstate has more than 3 losses remaining on their schedule. So KU will have to be almost perfect.

It's of course true that we have like 3% of the relevant information, but: I think it would be best for Vick to just be done.

[Deleted User 75]

In the last 14 years, Duke has won the title or shared the title a total of 2 times. Two. Last time being 2010. In that same timeframe UNC has won or shared a total of 8 times.

And doesn't that show that the ACC is tougher to win than the big 12?

[Soklous]

Here's the thing. Vick's absence shouldn't hurt KU too much over the next 2 weeks. Because, as his mom said, he is needed for a "couple of weeks"

Home against oSu. They have 6 scholarship guys.
On the road at TCU, they have dropped off. Offense runs through Robinson, but that's about it.
Home against WV. Should be a win as long as they don't play stupid.

And in exactly 2 weeks, KU will be on the road at Tech. Now Vick had an average game with 13 points in a 20 some point win and Lubbock is tough to play in. But the best case scenario is that he is back for that game. But KU can manage in the 3 games above. I wouldn't be surprised if KU went 8-0 over the last remaining games. Or they could go 5-3 over the last 8.

The only thing is, I don't know if kstate has more than 3 losses remaining on their schedule. So KU will have to be almost perfect.

It's of course true that we have like 3% of the relevant information, but: I think it would be best for Vick to just be done.

Lost in the mix of the “decision”, there was also a Players Only meeting Wednesday night.

One night after Vick lashed out and blamed the rest of his teammates during the Kstate loss. Which in turn caused his benching.

[NDballer13]

In the last 14 years, Duke has won the title or shared the title a total of 2 times. Two. Last time being 2010. In that same timeframe UNC has won or shared a total of 8 times.

And doesn't that show that the ACC is tougher to win than the big 12?

Or that sustained dominance is undervalued. It's not even the number of times they didn't win the conference. It's the number of times they didn't even finish Top 2. Duke has finished 5th or worse three times. UNC has finished 3rd or worse five times. One of which they finished 10th.

[PhDhawk]

Here's the thing. Vick's absence shouldn't hurt KU too much over the next 2 weeks. Because, as his mom said, he is needed for a "couple of weeks"

Home against oSu. They have 6 scholarship guys.
On the road at TCU, they have dropped off. Offense runs through Robinson, but that's about it.
Home against WV. Should be a win as long as they don't play stupid.

And in exactly 2 weeks, KU will be on the road at Tech. Now Vick had an average game with 13 points in a 20 some point win and Lubbock is tough to play in. But the best case scenario is that he is back for that game. But KU can manage in the 3 games above. I wouldn't be surprised if KU went 8-0 over the last remaining games. Or they could go 5-3 over the last 8.

The only thing is, I don't know if kstate has more than 3 losses remaining on their schedule. So KU will have to be almost perfect.

It's of course true that we have like 3% of the relevant information, but: I think it would be best for Vick to just be done.

This certainly feels intuitively like this is the end for Vick...but then why say it's a 'leave of absence'?

I get wanting to protect a player and not throw someone under the bus, but why create expectations for the fans that there will be a return if it's clear there won't be one?

One of my few complaints with Self is this sort of secrecy where he drags things out when there is no reason for it...maybe some of the examples of this were atcually uncertain, but there are a lot of times where we as fans are left thinking something is going to happen in the future that never does, and I hate being led on like that if these are things that are definite.

[jfish26]

It's at least possible that the wording is to help him save some face or to get him/Lala to go along with it.

[MICHHAWK]

I hope the youngster is able to come back to campus with a clear mind. And crush it.

[jfish26]

If it was, say, October or November...fine, I guess. But we're four years into the Vick experience, and it's February.

[pdub]

I hope the youngster is able to come back to campus with a clear mind. And crush it.

+15.

[Soklous]

Here's the thing. Vick's absence shouldn't hurt KU too much over the next 2 weeks. Because, as his mom said, he is needed for a "couple of weeks"

Home against oSu. They have 6 scholarship guys.
On the road at TCU, they have dropped off. Offense runs through Robinson, but that's about it.
Home against WV. Should be a win as long as they don't play stupid.

And in exactly 2 weeks, KU will be on the road at Tech. Now Vick had an average game with 13 points in a 20 some point win and Lubbock is tough to play in. But the best case scenario is that he is back for that game. But KU can manage in the 3 games above. I wouldn't be surprised if KU went 8-0 over the last remaining games. Or they could go 5-3 over the last 8.

The only thing is, I don't know if kstate has more than 3 losses remaining on their schedule. So KU will have to be almost perfect.

It's of course true that we have like 3% of the relevant information, but: I think it would be best for Vick to just be done.

This certainly feels intuitively like this is the end for Vick...but then why say it's a 'leave of absence'?

I get wanting to protect a player and not throw someone under the bus, but why create expectations for the fans that there will be a return if it's clear there won't be one?

One of my few complaints with Self is this sort of secrecy where he drags things out when there is no reason for it...maybe some of the examples of this were atcually uncertain, but there are a lot of times where we as fans are left thinking something is going to happen in the future that never does, and I hate being led on like that if these are things that are definite.

Fans, or the players. Vick left without speaking to any. Self informed them last night.

https://twitter.com/bentonasmith/status ... 74592?s=21

https://twitter.com/bentonasmith/status ... 96864?s=21

[pdub]

"And when he's back it will be better for us."
"Told Vick he wished for the best. Called Vick a great guy, with a great family."

As opposed to,
"For fuck’s sake.
Oh ya, would much rather have Vick than Svi.
I had a weird feeling, though, after Tuesday."

"This feels very similar to when Arnold had personal regret and decided to travel for 2 weeks to Mars in order to sort life out. In the end, he never left."

[Lonestarjayhawk]

Hard to compare whether or not we could have won 15 straight in other conferences. Not playing each team twice. Do you play them at home or away? We beat Florida in one of their championship years. All of Duke and UNC's championship teams were beatable. I question whether we would have won the SEC in 2012 or 2015. I have bigger question about winning the Big East championship than the PAC12 or B1G. But if Duke or UNC had done this there would be non-stop playing of the 30 for 30 about the streak.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

It's at least possible that the wording is to help him save some face or to get him/Lala to go along with it.

Vick doesn't seem like saving face is a big concern. I am assuming that there is an issue.

[PhDhawk]

It's at least possible that the wording is to help him save some face or to get him/Lala to go along with it.

I mean, that's my assumption. But isn't the better route to say something like, "He's got some personal issues to work on that are bigger than basketball right now, we don't anticipate that he'll return this season."

If he's really done, then calling it a leave of absence just means it's something the press will have to ask about at every press conference until the end of the season.

Or.....it really is a personal issue and he can come back when it's taken care of.