Dok - senior season

[jfish26]

Just as counterpoint...will voters care if Udoka is a massive liability defensively (in a way that individual counting numbers won't show)?

I mean, I question his ability to stay on the floor a lot more than I question our ability to get him, and his ability to get, numbers. If he plays enough, a 24/12/3 season on 65% shooting isn't out of reach.

[CrimsonNBlue]

There's nothing to suggest that he'll be on the floor enough to get above like 15/9/1.5.

Health is only half his problem on the minutes front. He's just a 13/7 type of guy in today's game.

[PhDhawk]

I'd have Winston as the clear frontrunner.

I'd love to see Dok be a 1st team AA. I think he could do that if he's healthy and the team wins.

Shattering a backboard or something that goes viral could help that.

[jfish26]

There's nothing to suggest that he'll be on the floor enough to get above like 15/9/1.5.

Health is only half his problem on the minutes front. He's just a 13/7 type of guy in today's game.

Sure. But he's what, 20 still? Holy shit he's 19 right now. He'll play his entire senior year at 20.

It's not inconceivable he'll figure some things out. Withey went from nearly unplayable to arguably the most impactful (and not lower than second-most-impactful) 5 Bill has had.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Shattering a backboard or something that goes viral could help that.

Like say at MSG against dook? I'm down.

[jfish26]

Shattering a backboard or something that goes viral could help that.

Like say at MSG against dook? I'm down.

While we're getting greedy - make it on Hurt.

[CrimsonNBlue]

There's nothing to suggest that he'll be on the floor enough to get above like 15/9/1.5.

Health is only half his problem on the minutes front. He's just a 13/7 type of guy in today's game.

Sure. But he's what, 20 still? Holy shit he's 19 right now. He'll play his entire senior year at 20.

It's not inconceivable he'll figure some things out. Withey went from nearly unplayable to arguably the most impactful (and not lower than second-most-impactful) 5 Bill has had.

True on Withey (asterisk on Udoka's age). It really is a huge timing/pace issue w/ Udoka. Missing last season sucked all the way around--really needed it for his development.

[PhDhawk]

It's just a matter of having the conditioning and ability to stay out of foul trouble for Dok.

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Defensively he's only a non-numbers liability guarding perimeter players, he's actually pretty good (for a big) at defending the screen and roll. Most non-Villanova teams don't play 5 guys on the perimeter.

[CrimsonNBlue]

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Dedric dwarfs those numbers.

[jfish26]

It's just a matter of having the conditioning and ability to stay out of foul trouble for Dok.

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Defensively he's only a non-numbers liability guarding perimeter players, he's actually pretty good (for a big) at defending the screen and roll. Most non-Villanova teams don't play 5 guys on the perimeter.

I think we're saying the same thing - he's got a reasonable shot at putting up great numbers.

I think you're giving him too much credit defensively, though. It's not just guarding perimeter players. His awareness in all aspects of defense has been lacking. He is frequently out of position, and his foul trouble comes largely from that.

[jfish26]

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Dedric dwarfs those numbers.

Yes. And Dedric made AA teams despite being on a pretty toxic and average team. If Dok gets the numbers above on a really good team, he'll make an AA team.

[PhDhawk]

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Dedric dwarfs those numbers.

Dedric was playing 33 mpg. We're hoping Dok plays 24.

If you use that to say Dedric is the better player, that's cool. Being able to actually BE IN the game is an important factor. But on a per minute basis, Dok is as good of a weapon as Self has had, his per 40s are considerably better than Lawson's for last season.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I don't recall Dedric making any AA team. Maybe if some publications go to 3rd/4th teams.

I'll gladly take those numbers because it means we're really good. I do think, however, that Dotson and Hampton will look like our two best players.

[jfish26]

I don't recall Dedric making any AA team. Maybe if some publications go to 3rd/4th teams.

I'll gladly take those numbers because it means we're really good. I do think, however, that Dotson and Hampton will look like our two best players.

He was 2nd on Sporting News and 3rd on AP, NABC and USBWA!

(This is a good example of how disgusted all of us were with this team.)

[CrimsonNBlue]

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Dedric dwarfs those numbers.

Dedric was playing 33 mpg. We're hoping Dok plays 24.

If you use that to say Dedric is the better player, that's cool. Being able to actually BE IN the game is an important factor. But on a per minute basis, Dok is as good of a weapon as Self has had, his per 40s are considerably better than Lawson's for last season.

I do think Dedric is better but that was not what I was trying to say.

And, now that I read your post again, I thought CPOY meant college player of the year (Naismith award, as the tweet indicated). I don't think 17 and 8 will get you close to a Naismith, but conference POY? Yes, those numbers make you a candidate.

[PhDhawk]

It's just a matter of having the conditioning and ability to stay out of foul trouble for Dok.

In the games he played 20 or more minutes last year he was 17.7/8.2/2.2

That's got a shot at an AA team and CPOY with those numbers.

Defensively he's only a non-numbers liability guarding perimeter players, he's actually pretty good (for a big) at defending the screen and roll. Most non-Villanova teams don't play 5 guys on the perimeter.

I think we're saying the same thing - he's got a reasonable shot at putting up great numbers.

I think you're giving him too much credit defensively, though. It's not just guarding perimeter players. His awareness in all aspects of defense has been lacking. He is frequently out of position, and his foul trouble comes largely from that.

No doubt. That goes to CnB's issue of timing though, and as he says, makes his injuries that much worse.

I think Dok's got it in him to be a decent team defender, and an above average rim protector if he gets the reps to build the timing and muscle memory. That he's at least adequate, if not better, at guarding the pick and roll is evidence to support that notion.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I don't recall Dedric making any AA team. Maybe if some publications go to 3rd/4th teams.

I'll gladly take those numbers because it means we're really good. I do think, however, that Dotson and Hampton will look like our two best players.

He was 2nd on Sporting News and 3rd on AP, NABC and USBWA!

(This is a good example of how disgusted all of us were with this team.)

So the last 3 publications have a 3rd team, but consensus only has 2 teams? That's weird. And, given Dedric's awesome numbers, the media were also disgusted with this past team.

[jfish26]

Couldn't agree more.

[PhDhawk]

Dedric dwarfs those numbers.

Dedric was playing 33 mpg. We're hoping Dok plays 24.

If you use that to say Dedric is the better player, that's cool. Being able to actually BE IN the game is an important factor. But on a per minute basis, Dok is as good of a weapon as Self has had, his per 40s are considerably better than Lawson's for last season.

I do think Dedric is better but that was not what I was trying to say.

And, now that I read your post again, I thought CPOY meant college player of the year (Naismith award, as the tweet indicated). I don't think 17 and 8 will get you close to a Naismith, but conference POY? Yes, those numbers make you a candidate.

I think NPOY is Winston's for the taking, and if not, someone like Howard will put up crazy numbers.

I'm the biggest Dok fan there is, but he's not going to get the minutes to put up the numbers to compete.

But I think he has the potential to be the most dominant big in the game.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I think Dok's got it in him to be a decent team defender, and an above average rim protector if he gets the reps to build the timing and muscle memory.

And to pile on, if we're going only off what we've been able to see, he also has below average BBIQ, which can only be fixed by reps he's not getting.

This also goes back to my "if you're a senior at KU, something didn't go right." If everything went right for Udoka, he'd have been gone after a monster season this past year.