Kenosha

[Deleted User 289]

Why is this complicated for you?

This little fucking shit drove from Illinois with an assault rifle just to stir up trouble.

Exactly what I originally thought too - and a pretty basic assessment.
BUT..... Does this look like trouble?

I believe I saw someone say on Twitter that Dylan Roof went to bible study with church members before murdering them???...

Which brings us to......
?

I honestly don't know how to respond to your post other than to ask, what if anything going forward can we learn in terms of people doing good things, moral things, and then pulling a 180 TO AN EXTREME soon after?

[Cascadia]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

You’ll never get an response to this from anyone on the Right

[ousdahl]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

You’ll never get an response to this from anyone on the Right

This country really could use a pro-life political movement.

[ousdahl]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEb-NcJgpS1 ... xsh78niah8

[Cascadia]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

You’ll never get an response to this from anyone on the Right

This country really could use a pro-life political movement.

The US is pro- white life.

[Deleted User 310]

This is what happens when you mix indoctrination with propaganda and fear and then arm it with a deadly weapon and send it into the middle of a crisis completely untrained to handle the crisis.

Agreed.

And that also goes for the guy who attacked him with a skateboard and the guy who he shot who had a handgun.

Eh, I dont know if I qualify the skateboard guy as that. Going after a guy with a gun running away from the scene of a shooting with people shouting "he just shot someone" would lead to him being heralded as a hero in many scenarios.

This is where there are conflicting reports.....had he actually shot someone before that occured?

I am seeing reports that he hadn't actually shot anyone yet before being chased in that video. Also seeing reports he had fired his gun, but the guy he shot at threw a molotov cocktail at him and he fired in self defense. Hard to know with all the irresponsible reporting that goes on.

[Deleted User 310]

Is anyone else sorta concerned the kid will walk?

He gets some “stand your ground” defense and a jury full of lobsters - it’s not that hard to imagine, right?

In Wisconsin i think you have to attempt to retreat...which if the video is of the first killing/shooting and not after he had killed someone then i think that will make a huge difference because he did appear to be retreating before getting knocked down and hit with the skateboard. Hard to piece multiple cell phone videos together via the internet and create a timeline, but investigators will be able to do so much more accurately.

But yes, no matter what i think he will be guilty of unlawfully having a gun and firing it at people even if it was in self defense becuase he drove there from IL. It isnt like they kicked in his front door and he needed to defend himself. He put himself in the situation to begin with and i think that will make a differnce.

[ousdahl]

[quote=ousdahl post_id=133318 time=<a href="tel:1598628542">1598628542</a> user_id=72]
[quote=Cascadia post_id=133314 time=<a href="tel:1598626645">1598626645</a> user_id=80]
[quote=ousdahl post_id=133267 time=<a href="tel:1598618187">1598618187</a> user_id=72]
“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

You’ll never get an response to this from anyone on the Right
[/quote]

This country really could use a pro-life political movement.
[/quote]


The US is pro- white life.
[/quote]

In a sense.

but still, not even.

I mean we just saw white dudes getting mowed down in the streets, and much of the reaction is the lobsters saying how they had it coming.

We’re somehow collectively desensitized. Meanwhile, folks will clutch their pearls about the sanctity of life as it applies to a zygote.

[ousdahl]

Is anyone else sorta concerned the kid will walk?

He gets some “stand your ground” defense and a jury full of lobsters - it’s not that hard to imagine, right?

In Wisconsin i think you have to attempt to retreat...which if the video is of the first killing/shooting and not after he had killed someone then i think that will make a huge difference. Hard to piece multiple cell phone videos together via the internet and create a timeline, but investigators will be able to do so much more accurately.

Yeah. I still haven’t seen a confirmed sequence of events.

Even if the dude hit the kid with a skateboard first, I’m not sure lighting him up with an assault rifle is a legally justifiable reaction.

In the aftermath vid, that dude in tan runs up and hits the kid from behind, and the kid spins around and shoots two other guys.

But yeah, if the kid was the one to initially escalate, oh man.

And if we needed any better indication we need police reform. It’s a bunch of swat vehicles driving right past the perpetrator so that he gets to drive home.

[Deleted User 310]

Is anyone else sorta concerned the kid will walk?

He gets some “stand your ground” defense and a jury full of lobsters - it’s not that hard to imagine, right?

In Wisconsin i think you have to attempt to retreat...which if the video is of the first killing/shooting and not after he had killed someone then i think that will make a huge difference. Hard to piece multiple cell phone videos together via the internet and create a timeline, but investigators will be able to do so much more accurately.

Yeah. I still haven’t seen a confirmed sequence of events.

Even if the dude hit the kid with a skateboard first, I’m not sure lighting him up with an assault rifle is a legally justifiable reaction.

In the aftermath vid, that dude in tan runs up and hits the kid from behind, and the kid spins around and shoots two other guys.

But yeah, if the kid was the one to initially escalate, oh man.

And if we needed any better indication we need police reform. It’s a bunch of swat vehicles driving right past the perpetrator so that he gets to drive home.

I would say getting smashed in the head with a skateboard would be a good enough reason to defend your life....cops kill people for a lot less and get to use the "i feared for my life" justification.

Regardless, the kid shouldnt have been there with a rifle. He put himself in that situation so i am fine with any punishment that comes his way. He sought that out. It was his neighborhood or backyard to defend tbh and that is a relevant fact.

[Walrus]

Some of you guys are funny because you're saying it was "illegal" for him to have a rifle -- since when has being "legal" had anything to do with these riots? There's nothing legal about setting fire to cars and shooting those who are in your way.

But let's just look at the facts:

-Kyle was there to protect some private property that the police would not (good on him!)
-The rioters were the first to shoot at him and throw a bomb of some sort in his diretion
-He defended himself against them (as anyone who is strong would)
-They chased him down and tried to kill him.
-The guy who got shot in the arm had an illegal pistol, as he was a felon. That guy tried to shoot Kyle in the head and failed (thank goodness).

The chances of the murder charges sticking are slim to none. The best they can hope for is in illegal firearm charge. This is good as a whole for America because it shows that some people can be brave to stand up to the mob of violent rioters. Maybe they will think twice next time before burning down another town.

[PhDhawk]

In Wisconsin i think you have to attempt to retreat...which if the video is of the first killing/shooting and not after he had killed someone then i think that will make a huge difference. Hard to piece multiple cell phone videos together via the internet and create a timeline, but investigators will be able to do so much more accurately.

Yeah. I still haven’t seen a confirmed sequence of events.

Even if the dude hit the kid with a skateboard first, I’m not sure lighting him up with an assault rifle is a legally justifiable reaction.

In the aftermath vid, that dude in tan runs up and hits the kid from behind, and the kid spins around and shoots two other guys.

But yeah, if the kid was the one to initially escalate, oh man.

And if we needed any better indication we need police reform. It’s a bunch of swat vehicles driving right past the perpetrator so that he gets to drive home.

I would say getting smashed in the head with a skateboard would be a good enough reason to defend your life....cops kill people for a lot less and get to use the "i feared for my life" justification.

Regardless, the kid shouldnt have been there with a rifle. He put himself in that situation so i am fine with any punishment that comes his way. He sought that out. It was his neighborhood or backyard to defend tbh and that is a relevant fact.

Your second sentence negates your first. Cops are supposed to go into these situations, this kid wasn't.

I know qualified immunity is not a popular thing right now, and the training of cops is certainly in question, but it's not the job of 17 year old kids to protect other peoples property in another state. This guy isn't a cop, so the same standard doesn't apply.

[seahawk]

Answer to Grandma:

We make assumptions about everything. I assume, because I worked with kids who'd been incarcerated for awhile that most 17 year olds, even most of those who get in trouble, are not murderers. Had a class of disadvantaged kids, who weren't all delinquents and 3 of them shot and killed someone in the year after they were in this employment class--2 of the 3, I wouldn't have expected them to kill someone, but they got caught up in the cocaine trade. Also had this foster kid who'd been incarcerated with a bunch of fairly bad dudes, who gave me his take on other criminally oriented kids.

Watching this kid after he'd shot 3 people and killed 2 as he walks proudly down the street and waves at the cops, I can hear my foster kid saying, "He's one dangerous dude, who should be under the jail forever." There are plenty of photos of he and other cop wannabes who are just looking to play killer with their weapons being accepted and thanked by the local cops. Doesn't seem like much of an assumption that they all knew the local PD was infiltrated by a lot of white supremacists who would have no problem with them shooting black men. Especially given the previous statements of the Sheriff.

My sheriff doesn't talk like that and he's born, bred, educated in the Deep South.

[ousdahl]

Yeah, cops have qualified immunity. Civilians don’t, especially if they’re using a gun they’re not lawfully supposed to have.

Again, not that I finished law school, but I think the fact the kid had a gun unlawfully in the first place means pretty much anything he does with that gun subsequently is unlawful as well? Or something like that.

Same thing with the sequence of events: whether the first shots he fired were in self-defense vs. being the aggressor could determine how his “self defense” argument holds up for the subsequent shootings, if he’s determined to be a victim retreating vs. a fugitive on the run?

[ousdahl]

I also think there’s a difference depending on how the skateboarder acted. If he’s just wailing on the kid without relent, that’s a different self-defense argument than if it was one swing then the skater retreated

[Deleted User 310]

Yeah. I still haven’t seen a confirmed sequence of events.

Even if the dude hit the kid with a skateboard first, I’m not sure lighting him up with an assault rifle is a legally justifiable reaction.

In the aftermath vid, that dude in tan runs up and hits the kid from behind, and the kid spins around and shoots two other guys.

But yeah, if the kid was the one to initially escalate, oh man.

And if we needed any better indication we need police reform. It’s a bunch of swat vehicles driving right past the perpetrator so that he gets to drive home.

I would say getting smashed in the head with a skateboard would be a good enough reason to defend your life....cops kill people for a lot less and get to use the "i feared for my life" justification.

Regardless, the kid shouldnt have been there with a rifle. He put himself in that situation so i am fine with any punishment that comes his way. He sought that out. It was his neighborhood or backyard to defend tbh and that is a relevant fact.

Your second sentence negates your first. Cops are supposed to go into these situations, this kid wasn't.

I know qualified immunity is not a popular thing right now, and the training of cops is certainly in question, but it's not the job of 17 year old kids to protect other peoples property in another state. This guy isn't a cop, so the same standard doesn't apply.

I agree with what you are saying. Kid shouldn't have been there.

But i still think getting bashed in the head with a skateboard would be an aggressive enough act for an ordinary citizen to defend their life with the use of deadly force.

[Deleted User 310]

I also think there’s a difference depending on how the skateboarder acted. If he’s just wailing on the kid without relent, that’s a different self-defense argument than if it was one swing then the skater retreated

I agree in theory...but at the same time a person could die from getting hit in the head with a skateboard. Used in that manner i am guessing under normal circumstances hitting someone in the head with a skateboard would be assault with a deadly weapon.

[ousdahl]

Some of you guys are funny because you're saying it was "illegal" for him to have a rifle -- since when has being "legal" had anything to do with these riots? There's nothing legal about setting fire to cars and shooting those who are in your way.

But let's just look at the facts:

-Kyle was there to protect some private property that the police would not (good on him!)
-The rioters were the first to shoot at him and throw a bomb of some sort in his diretion
-He defended himself against them (as anyone who is strong would)
-They chased him down and tried to kill him.
-The guy who got shot in the arm had an illegal pistol, as he was a felon. That guy tried to shoot Kyle in the head and failed (thank goodness).

The chances of the murder charges sticking are slim to none. The best they can hope for is in illegal firearm charge. This is good as a whole for America because it shows that some people can be brave to stand up to the mob of violent rioters. Maybe they will think twice next time before burning down another town.

Even if other unlawful things went down at the riots, that doesn’t have a bearing on a minor unlawfully possessing an assault rifle.

- of course you’d say “good on him,” but as a whole, we don’t need vigilante militias running around, they’re far more trouble than they’re worth
- I hadn’t heard a bomb threat, but again, let’s wait for a confirmed sequence of events
- a second-defense argument, again, will hinge on the sequence of events, and whether one can claim self-defense if they were unlawfully possessing a firearm to begin with
- at least as it pertains to the vid I saw, they did chase him, and one dude got in a cheap shot, but that’s not trying to kill him, and besides, the cheap shot dude (tan shirt) ran into the crowd, and the kid spun the other way and shot other dudes
- thank goodness, I guess, but if that guy had shot him in the head, the total body count may have been less that day....and it’s funny how fine the line is with “self defense,” as you could just as easily be arguing that pistol dude was just trying to defend himself, since you don’t care whether someone is lawfully possessing a gun otherwise.

And as for your last paragraph, I’ll ponder your angle if I can also encourage you to think about this situation from other angles as well. I’m not sure the reaction we need to the protests is militant high schoolers with assault weapons. Even if there’s property destruction, the answer is not vigilante justice, and loosing lives is more significant either way.

[ousdahl]

I also think there’s a difference depending on how the skateboarder acted. If he’s just wailing on the kid without relent, that’s a different self-defense argument than if it was one swing then the skater retreated

I agree in theory...but at the same time a person could die from getting hit in the head with a skateboard. Used in that manner i am guessing under normal circumstances hitting someone in the head with a skateboard would be assault with a deadly weapon.

Yeah, it could be.

But if it’s one hit and retreat, vs. a sustained attack, that’s a big difference.

But if he was able to collect himself enough to turn and start blasting, I don’t think this particular attack was that lethal.

And even if it is assault with a deadly weapon, okay, then get a vid of the skateboarder and report him to cops so he can have his day in court. That’s the appropriate administration of justice, NOT an execution right there in the street!

[ousdahl]

And that skateboarder might have had a death wish...OR maybe he was the one acting in self-defense, as has also been alleged.

Let’s wait for a confirmed sequence of events.