Kenosha

[seahawk]

In the original crowd shot, the skateboard guy was standing behind the first guy that Kyle shot 4 times, so it's possible he was a friend or was simply there at the time to see Kyle shoot someone in the head and knew that Kyle needed to be disarmed.

Another person kicked or knocked Kyle down and then he wielded his skateboard while Kyle was down.

[twocoach]

Agreed.

And that also goes for the guy who attacked him with a skateboard and the guy who he shot who had a handgun.

Eh, I dont know if I qualify the skateboard guy as that. Going after a guy with a gun running away from the scene of a shooting with people shouting "he just shot someone" would lead to him being heralded as a hero in many scenarios.

This is where there are conflicting reports.....had he actually shot someone before that occured?

I am seeing reports that he hadn't actually shot anyone yet before being chased in that video. Also seeing reports he had fired his gun, but the guy he shot at threw a molotov cocktail at him and he fired in self defense. Hard to know with all the irresponsible reporting that goes on.

Reports from law enforcement or reports from people trying to guess what they are seeing on the video?

[Walrus]

It's already confirmed that the rioters shot first and threw some kind of bomb. It's all on video. The only question is, what happened to lead up to this? Kyle was defending a car lot, and most people speculate that one of the rioters tried to vandalize a car. Kyle likely warned them to stop, and then it escalated from there. Bottom line is, these riots are stupid and this is what can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=1225s

[Deleted User 310]

And that skateboarder might have had a death wish...OR maybe he was the one acting in self-defense, as has also been alleged.

Let’s wait for a confirmed sequence of events.

For sure

[Deleted User 310]

Eh, I dont know if I qualify the skateboard guy as that. Going after a guy with a gun running away from the scene of a shooting with people shouting "he just shot someone" would lead to him being heralded as a hero in many scenarios.

This is where there are conflicting reports.....had he actually shot someone before that occured?

I am seeing reports that he hadn't actually shot anyone yet before being chased in that video. Also seeing reports he had fired his gun, but the guy he shot at threw a molotov cocktail at him and he fired in self defense. Hard to know with all the irresponsible reporting that goes on.

Reports from law enforcement or reports from people trying to guess what they are seeing on the video?

As far as i know law enforcement hasnt released any "reports" to the public so we are all going off of articles and videos.

[PhDhawk]

confirmed by youtube.

[Deleted User 318]

This is where there are conflicting reports.....had he actually shot someone before that occured?

I am seeing reports that he hadn't actually shot anyone yet before being chased in that video. Also seeing reports he had fired his gun, but the guy he shot at threw a molotov cocktail at him and he fired in self defense. Hard to know with all the irresponsible reporting that goes on.

Reports from law enforcement or reports from people trying to guess what they are seeing on the video?

As far as i know law enforcement hasnt released any "reports" to the public so we are all going off of articles and videos.

There is a criminal complaint you can read. The prosecution's side, which is mostly going to be from police reports and eye witnesses.

https://www.theherald-news.com/lists/20 ... xml?page=1

[ousdahl]

It's already confirmed that the rioters shot first and threw some kind of bomb. It's all on video. The only question is, what happened to lead up to this? Kyle was defending a car lot, and most people speculate that one of the rioters tried to vandalize a car. Kyle likely warned them to stop, and then it escalated from there. Bottom line is, these riots are stupid and this is what can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=1225s

I guess what happened in the lead up to this is the big question.

But Kyle had no business defending a car lot, especially not with an illegal assault rifle, so let’s not make him some kind of hero please.

And even if someone was vandalizing a car, that’s not a death sentence.

We really really really REALLY FUCKING REEEEEAALLY do NOT want amateur militia men, with who knows what kind of weapons or training, taking it upon themselves to play pretend cops.

(Heck, a fucking high school kid had more powerful arms than many of the actual cops!)

This is a much much scarier issue than any sort of property damage, and could very well be the difference between a peaceful protest and a deadly riot.

[Walrus]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

This says a lot about you, and none of if good. I see no one taught you what justice is. If someone hurts my son, I can't walk down the street and set some random person's house on fire and call it "appropriate".

[ousdahl]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

This says a lot about you, and none of if good. I see no one taught you what justice is. If someone hurts my son, I can't walk down the street and set some random person's house on fire and call it "appropriate".

What’s it say about me?

Besides that I value human life more than material property - as does our legal system. Murder carriers a heftier sentence than vandalism.

And yeah, if someone murders your son, you can’t set some random house on fire because of that. But no one is suggesting that but you, in yet another one of your straw man arguments.

[Walrus]

It's easy to understand why you support the rioter terrorists.

[Mjl]

It's already confirmed that the rioters shot first and threw some kind of bomb. It's all on video. The only question is, what happened to lead up to this? Kyle was defending a car lot, and most people speculate that one of the rioters tried to vandalize a car. Kyle likely warned them to stop, and then it escalated from there. Bottom line is, these riots are stupid and this is what can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=1225s

Bomb = grocery bag with a soft drink in it.

[PhDhawk]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

This says a lot about you, and none of if good. I see no one taught you what justice is. If someone hurts my son, I can't walk down the street and set some random person's house on fire and call it "appropriate".

Well, hopefully there is a not-yet able to vote, or serve in the military, aged vigilante from another state weilding an assault rifle to protect said house with lethal force.

[Deleted User 318]

Besides that I value human life more than material property - as does our legal system. Murder carriers a heftier sentence than vandalism.

The case law is clear. You cannot kill to protect personal property. People are confusing personal property and the Castle Doctrine. The Castle Doctrine is not at play at all. Protecting other's personal property is going to lead to less protection. Going cross state lines with illegal weapons is going to protect other's personal property is going to lead to less protection.

And you cannot defend yourself with deadly force if you are being the agitator.

[Walrus]

It's already confirmed that the rioters shot first and threw some kind of bomb. It's all on video. The only question is, what happened to lead up to this? Kyle was defending a car lot, and most people speculate that one of the rioters tried to vandalize a car. Kyle likely warned them to stop, and then it escalated from there. Bottom line is, these riots are stupid and this is what can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=1225s

Bomb = grocery bag with a soft drink in it.

Let's just assume you're right (which you aren't), what about the first gun shot?

[PhDhawk]

Besides that I value human life more than material property - as does our legal system. Murder carriers a heftier sentence than vandalism.

The case law is clear. You cannot kill to protect personal property. People are confusing personal property and the Castle Doctrine. The Castle Doctrine is not at play at all. Protecting other's personal property is going to lead to less protection. Going cross state lines with illegal weapons is going to protect other's personal property is going to lead to less protection.

And you cannot defend yourself with deadly force if you are being the agitator.

How can you say this about societies greatest heros?!?!?!

Some of these people make the ultimate sacrifice to put their lives on the line to defend used car lots, and you're in here talking about some legal mumbojumbo, I want this kid's face on the $1 bill. I can think of no nobler cause than to kill someone to ensure an automobile is not damaged.

[Mjl]

It's already confirmed that the rioters shot first and threw some kind of bomb. It's all on video. The only question is, what happened to lead up to this? Kyle was defending a car lot, and most people speculate that one of the rioters tried to vandalize a car. Kyle likely warned them to stop, and then it escalated from there. Bottom line is, these riots are stupid and this is what can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7SooO03bJ8&t=1225s

Bomb = grocery bag with a soft drink in it.

Let's just assume you're right (which you aren't), what about the first gun shot?

Also not "confirmed" - learn how to identify reliable sources

[ousdahl]

Reports from law enforcement or reports from people trying to guess what they are seeing on the video?

As far as i know law enforcement hasnt released any "reports" to the public so we are all going off of articles and videos.

There is a criminal complaint you can read. The prosecution's side, which is mostly going to be from police reports and eye witnesses.

https://www.theherald-news.com/lists/20 ... xml?page=1

Whoa.

I need to finish reading, but the initial escalation was a dude throwing a plastic bag?

Jesus Christ!

[ousdahl]

Besides that I value human life more than material property - as does our legal system. Murder carriers a heftier sentence than vandalism.

The case law is clear. You cannot kill to protect personal property. People are confusing personal property and the Castle Doctrine. The Castle Doctrine is not at play at all. Protecting other's personal property is going to lead to less protection. Going cross state lines with illegal weapons is going to protect other's personal property is going to lead to less protection.

And you cannot defend yourself with deadly force if you are being the agitator.

Thank you!

I always enjoy actual legal insight.

[ousdahl]

“Why is murder an appropriate response to property damage, but property damage is an inappropriate response to murder?”

This says a lot about you, and none of if good. I see no one taught you what justice is. If someone hurts my son, I can't walk down the street and set some random person's house on fire and call it "appropriate".

Well, hopefully there is a not-yet able to vote, or serve in the military, aged vigilante from another state weilding an assault rifle to protect said house with lethal force.

Dude can’t even legally watch porn!