Joel Embiid

[PhDhawk]

Again, none of it is meant as a knock on the past guys. It's just different types of humans these days.

7 footers often look alike throughout NBA history. Joel just looks different, though. He is an absolute monster. Shaq also looked different.

I would include Kareem in that group.

[pdub]

The issue here is that he's being compared to Embiid, who looks to be along with Jokic the best 7'0" players since Kevin Garnett(?)

[pdub]

I think Embiid is a better player than Kareem in a hypothetical matchup.
Basketball has just improved.
Is he better in terms of ranking all time greats? Not even close.

We've had this argument so many times before though - but it's the offseason, so we sure can have it again.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Again, none of it is meant as a knock on the past guys. It's just different types of humans these days.

7 footers often look alike throughout NBA history. Joel just looks different, though. He is an absolute monster. Shaq also looked different.

I would include Kareem in that group.

Really great athlete. Not sure that he could match the strength, though, of Joel, Shaq, Wilt.

David Robinson also looked completely different, but was in a little lighter weight class.

[AlOerter]

Fish - You're a smart guy. Meanwhile, you're probably 100% wrong about Embiid making Kareem look like a JUCO scrub. To me, that's just plain ignorant.
As I asked Illi - did you ever see Kareem play?
Let me ask you this. Do you know that Kareem and Wilt went up against each other head to head multiple times?
I'm pretty sure Kareem put up 50 against him in one of those games. They both "dominated" each other when they played against each other so please don't try to convince me or anyone else that Embiid would make Kareem look like a JUCO scrub. Unless you feel Kareem would make Embiid look like a JUCO scrub too.
Do you feel Embiid would make Wilt look like a JUCO scrub? Maybe you do. I feel he probably wouldn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2U4JSrpO78

Remember, Wilt was 11 yrs. older than Kareem. Wilt at the end of his career, Kareem in his prime.

[Cascadia]

You make a compelling case for Kareem being even better than Embiid, in comparison to his contemporaries.

You do not make a case at all for Kareem being the superior basketball player, in (hypothetical) comparison to Embiid.

I think you'd have to be a fool to think that if you could just snap your fingers and make them play each other as each was at 25 (or 27, or whatever age), Kareem would even be competitive.

You'd have to be a fool to think that you could just snap your fingers and make them play each other as each was at 25 (or 27, or whatever age). I don't bother attempting it other than to believe that Kareem would look better than a JUCO scrub as you suggested.

Of course. Again, the proper way to compare across generations is to compare how good a player is against his contemporaries. And there are very good reasons to say that Kareem is better on that basis.

But, you just cannot convince me that Kareem, as he existed at 27 years old, would be even competitive with Joel as he exists today (at 27 years old).

The differences in training and development and the game of basketball generally are just too great.

Using this logic we have to say that Marcus Garrett would make Michael Jordan look like a JUCO scrub.

[pdub]

No.
We don't.
But I know MJ fans will loose it but we can say something like Kawhi would hold his own v Jordan.

[TDub]

Because he wouldn't

[pdub]

"hold his own"
MJ fans:

[Deleted User 880]

Fish - You're a smart guy. Meanwhile, you're probably 100% wrong about Embiid making Kareem look like a JUCO scrub. To me, that's just plain ignorant.
As I asked Illi - did you ever see Kareem play?
Let me ask you this. Do you know that Kareem and Wilt went up against each other head to head multiple times?
I'm pretty sure Kareem put up 50 against him in one of those games. They both "dominated" each other when they played against each other so please don't try to convince me or anyone else that Embiid would make Kareem look like a JUCO scrub. Unless you feel Kareem would make Embiid look like a JUCO scrub too.
Do you feel Embiid would make Wilt look like a JUCO scrub? Maybe you do. I feel he probably wouldn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2U4JSrpO78

Remember, Wilt was 11 yrs. older than Kareem. Wilt at the end of his career, Kareem in his prime.

I admit I don't/didn't know how much older Wilt was. I think their careers overlapped 3 or 4 seasons.

What some on here MAY be failing to understand is just how good a defender Kareem was. He was and still is considered by many to be one of the greatest defenders of all time.
If people care, I'll let them look up the guys he played against but at the risk of being attacked for this I'm going to say I feel collectively - Kareem probably went up against more (many?) "dominant" Centers than Embiid has - and will.
Hey, I love Joel (he is one of my top 5 favorite players in the league) and I feel he is a phenomenal player and a "generational" talent but to think he would make Kareem look like a "JUCO stiff" is just wrong - to me. That being said, I very well may be wrong. I often am.

[TDub]

When people think of Kareem i thibk they think of 40 year old, bald, slow Kareem. Which, isnt fair to his career.

[ousdahl]

When I think of Kareem I think of that cameo in Baseketball when he’s in a glass case like a wax figure and they’re like is that Kareem and he turns and smiles.

I’m trying to find a gif but Google keeps asking, “did you mean Kareem basketball” and I’m like no Google, you heard me.

[NDballer13]

Add "play 43 minutes a game" to the list of things that Embiid cannot do that Kareem could. Embiid would be a broken pile of parts if he came even close to playing that much. You can go search youtube videos to get a feel for Kareem's game. His sky hook was almost always started off the dribble so yes, he could catch a ball outside of the paint and take his guy off the dribble.

https://youtu.be/iPcniUfKRlU

7 minute video of just his sky hook. I got about 4 minutes in when I realized a pattern. Every single one he caught the ball on the low to mid block, with his back to the basket, and backed down before going to the hook. While dribbling, yes, thats not exactly what is meant by "take his guy off the dribble".

[ousdahl]

Yea.

Did Kareem operate much on the perimeter, offensively or defensively?

Could he face up on offense and make a move off the dribble from the outside in?

[Leawood]

Jabbar could make a 16 foot hook shot from either hand from any spot on the floor. No one could defense that. He was in a class by himself.

[twocoach]

Add "play 43 minutes a game" to the list of things that Embiid cannot do that Kareem could. Embiid would be a broken pile of parts if he came even close to playing that much. You can go search youtube videos to get a feel for Kareem's game. His sky hook was almost always started off the dribble so yes, he could catch a ball outside of the paint and take his guy off the dribble.

https://youtu.be/iPcniUfKRlU

7 minute video of just his sky hook. I got about 4 minutes in when I realized a pattern. Every single one he caught the ball on the low to mid block, with his back to the basket, and backed down before going to the hook. While dribbling, yes, thats not exactly what is meant by "take his guy off the dribble".

This is boring.

I hope Embiid makes it back, soon and the Sixers are able to advance. I'd love to see them knock off the Nets.

[PhDhawk]

7 footers often look alike throughout NBA history. Joel just looks different, though. He is an absolute monster. Shaq also looked different.

I would include Kareem in that group.

Really great athlete. Not sure that he could match the strength, though, of Joel, Shaq, Wilt.

David Robinson also looked completely different, but was in a little lighter weight class.

Oh, I thought you meant stood out as in. If an alien who knew nothing about the game watched for the first time, he'd be able to tell, "that guy is good" by the end of warmups.

[twocoach]

It says something about Wilt that when talking about all-time great bigs and their competition it is almost always mentioned that Kareem and Russell played against Wilt.

Just the fact that the NBA was so much smaller and the pool of Hall of Fame NBA centers so much larger. Guys like Wilt, Kareem and Russell played against an NBA HoF center nearly every night.

Kareem's best season was 1972, when there were only 16 other teams in the NBA besides Kareem's Bucks.
Lakers had a Hall of Fame center in Wilt
Boston had a Hall of Fame center in Cowens
NY Knicks had a Hall of Fame center in Willis Reed
Baltimore had a Hall of Fame center in Unseld
Golden State had a Hall of Fame center in Thurmond
Houston had a Hall of Fame center in Hayes
Detroit had a Hall of Fame center in Lanier
Atlanta had a Hall of Fame center in Bellamy

Half of Kareem's opponents had Hall of Famers at center. Anyone think that half of Joel Embiid's games are against future Hall of Fame bigs?!?!

[pdub]

A lot of those HOFers wouldn't be stars today.

[Deleted User 89]

When I think of Kareem I think of that cameo in Baseketball when he’s in a glass case like a wax figure and they’re like is that Kareem and he turns and smiles.

I’m trying to find a gif but Google keeps asking, “did you mean Kareem basketball” and I’m like no Google, you heard me.

the better cameo was in Airplane