Let’s have a war!

[ousdahl]

Tell you what.

I’ll answer that, if you first answer my question from earlier:

If Russia agreed to knock off their invasion bullshit if Ukraine agreed to not join nato, would you make that deal?

[TDub]

sort of like when Russia agreed not to attack if Ukraine gave up Nuclear arms?

[TDub]

how'd that go for them?

[ousdahl]

What smashing pumpkins tune is that?

[ousdahl]

But for real, what’s this refer to?

Something in the early 90s?

Fortunately, nothing at all has changed since.

Not even the music.

[KUTradition]

Tell you what.

I’ll answer that, if you first answer my question from earlier:

If Russia agreed to knock off their invasion bullshit if Ukraine agreed to not join nato, would you make that deal?

if that’s what Ukraine wants, absolutely

[Deleted User 863]

Besides, I don’t wonder why I keep getting labeled as a Russia apologist. I know why I do - it’s cuz of just how well the western imperial war machine propaganda has conditioned you to do so. (ETA I recognize this much cuz I realize I used to be this way too!)

No. It hasn't.

Not to any of us.



It sounds good when you say stuff like that though. So keep at it. Maybe you'll win soon.

[Deleted User 863]

It’s some question of timeline. Does Bennett say specifically when the west broke off negotiations? Did they just shuffle their feet for a month?

And, I can’t stress this enough. PLEASE stop calling me a Russian apologist. When you say shot like that it makes me wanna keep this thread going until we clear the air about that pathetic gaslighting bullshit.

You’re better and brighter than that, trad. Shit, at this point, even illy is being less of an illy than you.

Besides, I don’t wonder why I keep getting labeled as a Russia apologist. I know why I do - it’s cuz of just how well the western imperial war machine propaganda has conditioned you to do so. (ETA I recognize this much cuz I realize I used to be this way too!)

you aren’t as woke as you’re purporting re: the western propaganda machine

Mjl’s link should’ve indicated as much

you’re just parroting a different kind of propaganda…the taking of twitter stories at face value seems to have you quite triggered (and poorly informed)

shhh...

im trying to lull this thread to sleep with amazingly clever 90s alt rock puns.

The sort of radicalization of Ousdahl that we have witnessed over the last few years is scary.


This is a good hearted, educated, relatively well off, individual.


Think about all the people who are being radicalized by social media like him who are angry dangerous and violent humans.

Terrifying.

[Deleted User 863]

i know you are, but what am i

what are you, 6?

He's stuck on 19.

[Mjl]

i know you are, but what am i

what are you, 6?

He's stuck on 19.

Hey 19 was released in 1980. We're doing 90's. Try to keep up.

[Deleted User 863]

Try to keep up.

I try.

Usually unsuccessfully.

[KUTradition]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/moldovas-p ... s-7eb2e24f

[KUTradition]

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/11557616 ... lear-plant

[ousdahl]

i know you are, but what am i

what are you, 6?

once again, forgive me for being such a pain in this thread. I miss how well we got along up until this thread.

in hindsight, that wasn't a great response to your question, admittedly.

I guess I'm not sure either point is the slam dunk we think it is or want it to be - neither of Bennett's translated comment being such a clear indictment of western policies, nor of mil's article discrediting as much.

[ousdahl]

The sort of radicalization of Ousdahl that we have witnessed over the last few years is scary.


This is a good hearted, educated, relatively well off, individual.


Think about all the people who are being radicalized by social media like him who are angry dangerous and violent humans.

Terrifying.

dangit illy.

when you're at your worst, you're the most foe-able asshole on the internet.

but when you're at your best, you can even go sig.

and, yea, maybe I have been "radicalized." I'm cognizant of that much.

But, in contrast with the kooky right wing Qanon direction most lobsters tend to be radicalized, I've been radicalized toward the left end of the bell curve instead.

And, the appealing thing about the left end of the bell curve is, "good hearted, educated, relatively well off" are precisely the tenets of the left end! And for everyone, too!

Whether that really counts as "radicalized," or whether it's the status quo itself that has been too radical all along, may be another point of debate.

if I am persistent in this thread, and about other topics of debate, it's cuz I think there really is merit to sharing a more "radical" left view. In this thread, I think it's about condemning all war, not just picking and choosing good guys and bad guys, and inevitably rationalizing which war crimes are condemnable and which are OK to just kinda shrug off.

It's just like you yourself said: we need more of me.

[zsn]

Tell you what.

I’ll answer that, if you first answer my question from earlier:

If Russia agreed to knock off their invasion bullshit if Ukraine agreed to not join nato, would you make that deal?

if that’s what Ukraine wants, absolutely

Absolutely not. Russia doesn’t get to dictate by force what Ukraine or any other country does or doesn’t do.

Look up the word “sovereignty” in the dictionary. Also look up the word “bully”. What you’re saying is no different than Johnny agreeing not to beat up Billy if Billy would stop getting Bs or above in tests.

[KUTradition]

Tell you what.

I’ll answer that, if you first answer my question from earlier:

If Russia agreed to knock off their invasion bullshit if Ukraine agreed to not join nato, would you make that deal?

if that’s what Ukraine wants, absolutely

Absolutely not. Russia doesn’t get to dictate by force what Ukraine or any other country does or doesn’t do.

Look up the word “sovereignty” in the dictionary. Also look up the word “bully”. What you’re saying is no different than Johnny agreeing not to beat up Billy if Billy would stop getting Bs or above in tests.

i disagree

if russia went home, including from crimea, and Ukraine gave up aspirations for NATO in order to make that happen…i would have zero problem with it

if that is what UKRAINE wants. it’s not what i personally would want, but it’s not my choice. sovereignty includes getting to make your own decisions, even if world powers may not agree

there will most assuredly be war crimes hearings, regardless of how this ends

what alternative would you support?

[ousdahl]

I almost said something, but I kinda recall getting shit for suggesting the people of Ukraine should be able to decide the fate of Ukraine.

but maybe it was specific to Crimea. But the hairy thing about Crimea is, it's among those regions of eastern Ukraine that are majority ethnic Russians, Russian speaking, may or may not prefer to just be part of Russia anyway at this point...cuz they have been getting the shit kicked out of them by western Ukrainian forces, armed with weapons provided by NATO countries. And to be fair, I think Russia has been providing arms to these regions too.

and cut me slack here please, I'm trying to state this all as neutrally and matter-of-factly as possible.

cuz, I agree, Russia doesn’t get to dictate by force what Ukraine or any other country does or doesn’t do.

but the thing is, I don't think any country should get to dictate by force what any other country does or doesn't do.

(are we getting somewhere?!)

[ousdahl]

Absolutely not. Russia doesn’t get to dictate by force what Ukraine or any other country does or doesn’t do.

does the United States get to, tho?

[zsn]

Absolutely not. Russia doesn’t get to dictate by force what Ukraine or any other country does or doesn’t do.

does the United States get to, tho?

No. That’s why I had a problem with the Bushies changing their reasoning for invading Iraq. Afghanistan was ostensibly “self defense”. At least be honest and say we want their oil.