Where's 2023 Rank

[pdub]

As I said in the OG post, I'm talking talent as a team vs individuals.
The B12 this season was stronger than it was in 18.

But if we have to talk individuals.
Jalen is B12POY, 1st team AA and has the highest Crimscore of any player on either squad.
Newman could score but couldn't play defense ( McCullar has a B12DPOY under his belt ). He didn't make a B12 team or honorable mention. McCullar was on the 3rd team.
2023 boasts 2 B12DPOY actually. Not a single player on 18 made defensive first team.
Both Svi and Gradey made 2nd team B12.

Dok is awesome but he was a sophomore and was out of sorts similar to Udeh was on the defensive end.
Dok made 3rd team All B12. KJ was honorable mention. ( so was Harris )

It's close for me but i'm giving the nod to 23 in 7 games.

[NewtonHawk11]

23 team is middle of the pack as middle of the pack could be.

Overperformed in the season, underperformed in the tourney.

[jfish26]

As I said in the OG post, I'm talking talent as a team vs individuals.
The B12 this season was stronger than it was in 18.

But if we have to talk individuals.
Jalen is B12POY, 1st team AA and has the highest Crimscore of any player on either squad.
Newman could score but couldn't play defense ( McCullar has a B12DPOY under his belt ). He didn't make a B12 team or honorable mention. McCullar was on the 3rd team.
2023 boasts 2 B12DPOY actually. Not a single player on 18 made defensive first team.
Both Svi and Gradey made 2nd team B12.

Dok is awesome but he was a sophomore and was out of sorts similar to Udeh was on the defensive end.
Dok made 3rd team All B12. KJ was honorable mention. ( so was Harris )

It's close for me but i'm giving the nod to 23 in 7 games.

This will sound like a criticism but really it's a compliment: Jalen is the worst great player we've had under Bill.

[ousdahl]

Dok is awesome but he was a sophomore and was out of sorts similar to Udeh was on the defensive end.
Dok made 3rd team All B12.

see, this is the biggest thing for me.

(literally, the biggest!)

Dok averaged 13, 7, almost 2 blocks that year, even as a sophomore.

Even as a sophomore, he was a fucking force, man. He bullied absolutely anyone who matched up with him - even normal-size centers!

Then realize he's got 5 inches and 45 pounds on KJ.

Then realize that by the time you finished reading this sentence, freshman Ernest picked up 2 fouls.

how would this year's team handle Dok?

[MICHHAWK]

we won the toughest(by a wide margin) conference in d-1. that counts for a lot.

[jfish26]

Dok is awesome but he was a sophomore and was out of sorts similar to Udeh was on the defensive end.
Dok made 3rd team All B12.

see, this is the biggest thing for me.

(literally, the biggest!)

Dok averaged 13, 7, almost 2 blocks that year, even as a sophomore.

Even as a sophomore, he was a fucking force, man. He bullied absolutely anyone who matched up with him - even normal-size centers!

Then realize he's got 5 inches and 45 pounds on KJ.

Then realize that by the time you finished reading this sentence, freshman Ernest picked up 2 fouls.

how would this year's team handle Dok?

Well, in Doke's sophomore year, KJ would have gotten Doke out into space and had him pick up two fouls in the time it's taking randy to google "horse dewormer near me".

[Mjl]

Who is in that conversation for "great players under Self"?
Simien
Ochai
Graham
Mason
Collins
Wilson
TRob
Marcus Morris
Dok?
Lawson?
Anyone else?

[pdub]

Peeps gonna be mad Chalmers and Rush aren't on there ( with some good reason ).

Other peeps gonna be mad PE isn't on there ( with not much reason ).

Even other peeps gonna be made RussRob isn't on there ( with eye roll ).

[Mjl]

If those guys are on there then I definitely disagree with JFish's take on Wilson being the worst great player for Self.

[randylahey]

The fact that Bill made this team hard to guard is unreal. This team lacked size shooting and athleticism compared to other good kansas teams. He got real creative

[TDub]

I dont count Lawson as a great player

[pdub]

I didn't like him one bit but he was a great player for his single season here.
If we're just talking about single seasons, he had one of the best under Self.
And man, without him ( bad luck with Udoka ), we woulda been 8/9 seeding.

[TDub]

if you count Lawson as a great player then Perry is a great player (he's not....and I PE a helluva lot more than Dedric).

[pdub]

Player A: 19.4 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 49% FG
Player B: 16.9 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 1.3 APG, .5 SPG, .5 BPG, 53% FG

That said, I do think Perry Ellis's career here is underrated along with his best year, the one above.

[pdub]

Also, player A was kinda cheated out of B12 POY.
His team struggled so it makes sense why he probably didn't win but:

Player A: 19.4 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 49% FG
Player B: 18.5 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.5 SPG, .6 BPG, 46% FG

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

we won the toughest(by a wide margin) conference in d-1. that counts for a lot.

Yep, it sure "counts for a lot". "a lot" ultimately meaning earning a loss to an 8 seed that finished in 9th place in an inferior conference.

[MICHHAWK]

I place great value in winning conference championships.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I place great value in winning conference championships.

As I feel you should. It's an accomplishment the team should be proud of.
Unfortunately for the 2022/2023 KU team, all that got them was a nice trophy, a year put on a banner in Allen, and a trip to Des Moines Iowa where they lost their second tournament game to a team that finished 9th in their conference.