Another mass shooting

[jfish26]

I mean, it could have been Florida

Excuse me!

Our "militia" is nothing if not "well-regulated"







dammit!

Regulating in progress…

https://twitter.com/carlosgsmith/status ... PzNG4aOfKQ

[Sparko]

A neighbor asked a man to stop shooting his rifle and waking their baby. He killed five of them with his AR-15 and is still missing. I think it advisable he should not have an assault rifle handy.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4 ... ould-sleep

[zsn]

Exactly what the 2nd Amendment was designed to do. Protect your rights from the tyranny of human decency and allow a baby to sleep peacefully!

[jfish26]

https://twitter.com/aodespair/status/16 ... PzNG4aOfKQ

[zsn]

What you do need to secure is the ability of any person, including those who are not authorized to be in the country, to just go out and buy an AR-15.

Republicans score card:
Legally eligible people wanting to vote - jump through hoops
Anyone to buy an AR-15 - go right ahead

Thank you, NRA.

[TDub]

jump through hoops? you have to have an ID. crimanintly Of all the things to equate the two things to, that's what you went with?....sheesh.

[kubowler99]

jump through hoops? you have to have an ID. crimanintly Of all the things to equate the two things to, that's what you went with?....sheesh.

You do know it's not exactly easy to get an ID in red states, correct?

In the St Louis area for example, they've shut down most full-time testing locations to get a drivers license (there's only 7 for a metro population size of what, 2.5 million? And 2 of those have been 'temporarily closed' for the last several months). Oh - and of the 5 that are 'open' only 4 are open from 8-5 M-F (how do working people actually get to these?). The last one is only open on Mondays from 8-5 (this one is in St. Louis City proper, with a population of 600k BTW). And the ability to schedule appointments (so you're not waiting for hours) has been disabled for the last couple of years (even though they state in sections on their site that you can do that).

Oh yeah, and all testing STOPS AT 4:30PM!!

My middle son turned 16 two weeks ago - please tell me when he can actually go get his drivers license before the end of the school year? It's not like we can schedule a time at 3:30pm, and if we show up after school ends (arrive there by 3pm at the earliest) - there's no way he gets to take his test because there is a line that will take hours to get through. Plus we both work - so now we're taking time off during the summer in order to get him there. Now imagine a 30 year old single parent trying to do this.

The fact that a metropolitan area with 2.5 million people doesn't offer a single Saturday testing office is pretty telling.

And yes, MO does offer the ability to acquire a free, non-driving ID to use for voting, but that still requires going to the DMV (no ability to schedule an appointment which is crazy given it's 2023 and many of the DMVs in St Louis are now operated by private companies) so either someone will have to take off work, or hopefully be able to get to the DMV early on Saturday and wait for hours. Plus they will need a copy of their birth certificate, their SSN, and proof of address. 2 of those are relatively easy, but the birth certificate might not be immediately on hand for many people. So that means they now have to acquire that piece of information, which could take weeks, especially if they don't know where they were born.

So please explain to me how this isn't 'jumping through hoops' to get an ID so you CAN VOTE?

It's always funny the people that claim 'all you need is an ID to vote' never really seem to either understand or are willing to discuss what that actually entails.

[TDub]

jump through hoops? you have to have an ID. crimanintly Of all the things to equate the two things to, that's what you went with?....sheesh.

You do know it's not exactly easy to get an ID in red states, correct?

In the St Louis area for example, they've shut down most full-time testing locations to get a drivers license (there's only 7 for a metro population size of what, 2.5 million? And 2 of those have been 'temporarily closed' for the last several months). Oh - and of the 5 that are 'open' only 4 are open from 8-5 M-F (how do working people actually get to these?). The last one is only open on Mondays from 8-5 (this one is in St. Louis City proper, with a population of 600k BTW). And the ability to schedule appointments (so you're not waiting for hours) has been disabled for the last couple of years (even though they state in sections on their site that you can do that).

Oh yeah, and all testing STOPS AT 4:30PM!!

My middle son turned 16 two weeks ago - please tell me when he can actually go get his drivers license before the end of the school year? It's not like we can schedule a time at 3:30pm, and if we show up after school ends (arrive there by 3pm at the earliest) - there's no way he gets to take his test because there is a line that will take hours to get through. Plus we both work - so now we're taking time off during the summer in order to get him there. Now imagine a 30 year old single parent trying to do this.

The fact that a metropolitan area with 2.5 million people doesn't offer a single Saturday testing office is pretty telling.

And yes, MO does offer the ability to acquire a free, non-driving ID to use for voting, but that still requires going to the DMV (no ability to schedule an appointment which is crazy given it's 2023 and many of the DMVs in St Louis are now operated by private companies) so either someone will have to take off work, or hopefully be able to get to the DMV early on Saturday and wait for hours. Plus they will need a copy of their birth certificate, their SSN, and proof of address. 2 of those are relatively easy, but the birth certificate might not be immediately on hand for many people. So that means they now have to acquire that piece of information, which could take weeks, especially if they don't know where they were born.

So please explain to me how this isn't 'jumping through hoops' to get an ID so you CAN VOTE?

It's always funny the people that claim 'all you need is an ID to vote' never really seem to either understand or are willing to discuss what that actually entails.

oh man, that sounds like a real challenge. Must feel like a lion at a circus.

As you pointed out, noone says you nees to be able to drive to vote. And if proving you are who you are is too difficult to do to get an ID...then...I dunno........If they had to have a birth certificate to get the stimulus check I bet the same people would've come up with it then.


Comeon, none of that is very difficult. I've done it, I've gotten IDs in big cities, never did I think it was anything more than a minor inconvenience.

But, whatever, sure, super difficult. Definetely should let anyone vote wherever, whenever, and however many times they feel like. Require an ID? I'm sure somehow that's racist, sexist, classist, anti lgbtiqrstuv, and all the other ists.


You need an ID for anything and everything.

[KUTradition]

sounds like the voice of privilege

[TDub]

Its the voice if someone who's had to take off work and ride a bus to get an ID. But its not hard. It's required to function in life in really any capacity.


how do you do anything without an ID?

[Shirley]

kubowler99, Excellent, excellent post.

The personal element of your experience brings the lengths republicans are willing to go to in order to choose voters rather than letting voters choose who represents them, into vivid focus.

In states that republicans control, there are so many examples of republicans passing laws to suppress the vote, it defies quantification. Limiting early voting and voting by mail are only a couple of examples.

Republicans can't win based on their policies-they've lost the popular vote for president 7 out of the last 8 elections, so instead of following what everyone has always known, that politics is a game of addition not subtraction, and doing the work to come up with more popular policies, they do everything they can to divide us into tribes, and objectify "the other" by stoking fear of minorities whether it's based on ethnicity/color, sexual preference, et al.

I'm very sorry you're having to navigate an intentional maze constructed by craven and gutless republicans who are so desperate to hold onto power that they'll do anything, including violating a citizens constitutional right to vote, to avoid having to deal with the reality that times in the US, and all over the world, are not only changing, but have changed. "Conservative" republican unwillingness to deal with that reality, whether it's not accepting the results of the 2020 presidential election or attacking our nation's capital in an attempted coup to stop the peaceful transition of power, are an existential threat to our republic.

Gawd help us against these goddamn fascists.

[zsn]

Shorter Republicans response (including TDub) - I’m ok with a poll tax as long as it’s really easy for literally anyone to buy an AR-15, no questions asked.

[TDub]

you have to have an ID to buy a gun.....plus a background check, plus getting fingerprinted. etc

even with that I dont really see the need to have an AR. Never has been my argument. I'm not sure they should be entirely banned but I'm open to it for sure. I have no need or desire to own one.


As for the rest of your statement, give me a break. good grief, you cant be serious.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Speaking of ID cards....
The frightening thing to me is many if not most people who shoot others didn't use an ID to acquire their gun/s.
The even more frightening thing to me is those who did use an ID and were able to get guns to shoot others - despite blatant warning signs in which those people should have been deemed a viable threat.

[KUTradition]

Its the voice if someone who's had to take off work and ride a bus to get an ID. But its not hard. It's required to function in life in really any capacity.


how do you do anything without an ID?

just because it hasn’t been hard for you doesn’t mean that’s everyone’s experience

kids, jobs where it’s hard (or impossible) to get time off…and time off during the hours where the dmv is open (and enough time off to wait in line, if necessary), etc, etc

it’s also not just about IDs (which i generally do agree with), but also the closing of polling places, reductions in their hours and staff, reductions in ballot drop boxes, etc, etc

i really fail to understand why anyone that is truly interested in this being a representative democracy, being against (or ambivalent towards) the process being as easy as possible for ALL of our citizens to legally vote…not saying that’s how you feel necessarily, but it sure comes off that way

[KUTradition]

you have to have an ID to buy a gun.....plus a background check, plus getting fingerprinted. etc

is that true in all cases?

[Shirley]

you have to have an ID to buy a gun.....plus a background check, plus getting fingerprinted. etc

is that true in all cases?

Licensed gun dealers, people who make a living selling guns, have to run a background check whether it's at a brick and mortar store, or at a gun show. People who sell guns occasionally, as a hobby and only attend guns shows as vendors occasionally, don't.

Can you buy whatever you want at a gun show without a background check?

[zsn]

you have to have an ID to buy a gun.....plus a background check, plus getting fingerprinted. etc

is that true in all cases?

As far as I know (granted not entirely up to date) not needed for gun shows or “private party sales”. Basically find a guy who knows a guy you can buy a tactical nuclear weapon, no questions asked (okay, slight hyperbole about nukes….but not that much).

Thank YOU, NRA.

[TDub]

you have to have an ID to buy a gun.....plus a background check, plus getting fingerprinted. etc

is that true in all cases?

As far as I know (granted not entirely up to date) not needed for gun shows or “private party sales”. Basically find a guy who knows a guy you can buy a tactical nuclear weapon, no questions asked (okay, slight hyperbole about nukes….but not that much).

Thank YOU, NRA.

As far as I'm aware, at least as of 2015, all gun purchases have to be transferred through a licensed FFL dealer who is federally required to fill out the paperwork and take the same steps as anywhere else.

[TDub]

Its the voice if someone who's had to take off work and ride a bus to get an ID. But its not hard. It's required to function in life in really any capacity.


how do you do anything without an ID?

just because it hasn’t been hard for you doesn’t mean that’s everyone’s experience

kids, jobs where it’s hard (or impossible) to get time off…and time off during the hours where the dmv is open (and enough time off to wait in line, if necessary), etc, etc

it’s also not just about IDs (which i generally do agree with), but also the closing of polling places, reductions in their hours and staff, reductions in ballot drop boxes, etc, etc

i really fail to understand why anyone that is truly interested in this being a representative democracy, being against (or ambivalent towards) the process being as easy as possible for ALL of our citizens to legally vote…not saying that’s how you feel necessarily, but it sure comes off that way

That's all fine, but the discussion isn't about polling places closing early or any of the other stuff...the discussion was IDs. If you dont have to have an ID to vote how do you control the process at all? How do you ensure the person is legally able to vote?

You need an ID to participate in society, in essentially any aspect. Requiring an ID to vote isn't so outtlandish, exclusive thing