next soccer question
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KUTradition
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Re: next soccer question
damn…Newton is triggered lol
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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NewtonHawk11
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Re: next soccer question
I don’t like settling for fine.
“I don’t remember anything he said, but it was a very memorable speech.” Julian Wright on a speech Michael Jordan gave to a group he was in
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
Re: next soccer question
I knew Newton would be pissed haha.
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NewtonHawk11
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Re: next soccer question
I waited to post anything on it this morning. Didn’t want to post it last night.
But the time passing didn’t help. Still not happy.
But the time passing didn’t help. Still not happy.
“I don’t remember anything he said, but it was a very memorable speech.” Julian Wright on a speech Michael Jordan gave to a group he was in
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
Re: next soccer question
I'm good with it.
We finished in the top 16 which is the best we've done in the modern era sans the exceptional 2002 where we got lucky to match up with rival Mexico.
We played toe to toe with the Netherlands but didn't have a striker who could finish. The same could be said against England. Maybe now that's changed.
We also won the Gold Cup which is not nothing.
This was after we DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE LAST WORLD CUP.
You'd have to be fooling yourself to think we are a top 4 team in the World by next World Cup.
We don't have the talent.
But maybe you do well enough/lucky enough to get to the last 4 if you're playing on home soil. I think expectations should be to get to the round of 8. And I think Gregg can get us there.
We finished in the top 16 which is the best we've done in the modern era sans the exceptional 2002 where we got lucky to match up with rival Mexico.
We played toe to toe with the Netherlands but didn't have a striker who could finish. The same could be said against England. Maybe now that's changed.
We also won the Gold Cup which is not nothing.
This was after we DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE LAST WORLD CUP.
You'd have to be fooling yourself to think we are a top 4 team in the World by next World Cup.
We don't have the talent.
But maybe you do well enough/lucky enough to get to the last 4 if you're playing on home soil. I think expectations should be to get to the round of 8. And I think Gregg can get us there.
Re: next soccer question
Not renewing Gregg would be similar to letting T.J. Otzelberger go for the Clones after they reached a Sweet 16 and made the tournament 2 years in a row ( after missing it with the previous coach 2 years in a row ) because they think they should be better than a 6 seed.
NOW if there was some dream candidate that was actually gonna take the job ( say Jose Mourinho ) and we passed him up for Gregg, sure, let's be pissed.
My guess is that we asked a lot of potential better candidates and they all said no thanks.
NOW if there was some dream candidate that was actually gonna take the job ( say Jose Mourinho ) and we passed him up for Gregg, sure, let's be pissed.
My guess is that we asked a lot of potential better candidates and they all said no thanks.
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NewtonHawk11
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Re: next soccer question
I have a big problem with 2 things.
1. At a supposed leadership conference after the World Cup, he clearly showed leadership by throwing a player under the bus (Gio Reyna) by stating basically exact situations that probably should have stayed behind closed doors and played it off like he was some savant for the whole thing. That’s not leadership. Cowardice.
2. This was announced or leaked THE MOMENT the match kicked off last night. They hoped that the high of beating Mexico was going to lessen some of the sting. Point number 2 is that the media (US Soccer mouthpieces) said that the US can’t go after these $15-20M coaches. Gregg was paid under $2M, why did we need to kick it up to that number? Because that number never existed and it was only said to help validate the Gregg hire even more.
You and I can disagree. And that’s fine. But this team is a top 10 team in talent IMO. A clear cut below the top 5 obviously. But a top 10 roster.
Lastly, look at how free flowing the attack was last night. The 4-2-3-1 was fluid, aggressive and wasn’t just hopeless cross after hopeless cross. Attacked from the middle, from the wing and through buildups in the middle. The fullbacks stayed home a bit more which let Pulisic and Weah have more space to do what they do best which is create in space. Under Gregg, Antonee Robinson and Dest were always so high almost as wingers and it left our defense open. Mexico had 1 SOG last night. And it was after a mistake by Turner with a bad pass that he saved. We were sound offensively and defensively because of the different formation and not a rigid structure. That could be because we’re that much better or Mexico is that bad. Probably a bit of both.
1. At a supposed leadership conference after the World Cup, he clearly showed leadership by throwing a player under the bus (Gio Reyna) by stating basically exact situations that probably should have stayed behind closed doors and played it off like he was some savant for the whole thing. That’s not leadership. Cowardice.
2. This was announced or leaked THE MOMENT the match kicked off last night. They hoped that the high of beating Mexico was going to lessen some of the sting. Point number 2 is that the media (US Soccer mouthpieces) said that the US can’t go after these $15-20M coaches. Gregg was paid under $2M, why did we need to kick it up to that number? Because that number never existed and it was only said to help validate the Gregg hire even more.
You and I can disagree. And that’s fine. But this team is a top 10 team in talent IMO. A clear cut below the top 5 obviously. But a top 10 roster.
Lastly, look at how free flowing the attack was last night. The 4-2-3-1 was fluid, aggressive and wasn’t just hopeless cross after hopeless cross. Attacked from the middle, from the wing and through buildups in the middle. The fullbacks stayed home a bit more which let Pulisic and Weah have more space to do what they do best which is create in space. Under Gregg, Antonee Robinson and Dest were always so high almost as wingers and it left our defense open. Mexico had 1 SOG last night. And it was after a mistake by Turner with a bad pass that he saved. We were sound offensively and defensively because of the different formation and not a rigid structure. That could be because we’re that much better or Mexico is that bad. Probably a bit of both.
“I don’t remember anything he said, but it was a very memorable speech.” Julian Wright on a speech Michael Jordan gave to a group he was in
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
Re: next soccer question
1. Probably should have been handled better all around. But i'm guessing there was also more behind the scenes with the information that the Reyna's were trying to blackmail Berhalter. I think he may have showed more restraint than we think there. And I'm guessing Gio probably was being a bitch and Greg just put him in his place which didn't fly well with the helicopter parents. And Greg may have been right all along that Gio was better as a dude off the bench in the end.
2. It's maaayyybe a top 10 team in talent. It's borderline there. I'd be more comfortable saying top 15. I think it really won't change much before the next cup. I think both England and the Netherlands have more talent whom you could reasonably say we either outplayed or played evenly in the last cup. I think USA deserved that England win but soccer is a flukey game but with that in mind, they get the result there they deserved and they finish top of the group and don't have to play a top 8 team and play and I think beat Senegal. Just how it goes.
Mexico is in shambles at the moment. I didn't watch last night. I don't disagree that some of Greg's tactics and decisions are frustrating. But i'd argue the results have been there and we showed well in the biggest stage of all.
2. It's maaayyybe a top 10 team in talent. It's borderline there. I'd be more comfortable saying top 15. I think it really won't change much before the next cup. I think both England and the Netherlands have more talent whom you could reasonably say we either outplayed or played evenly in the last cup. I think USA deserved that England win but soccer is a flukey game but with that in mind, they get the result there they deserved and they finish top of the group and don't have to play a top 8 team and play and I think beat Senegal. Just how it goes.
Mexico is in shambles at the moment. I didn't watch last night. I don't disagree that some of Greg's tactics and decisions are frustrating. But i'd argue the results have been there and we showed well in the biggest stage of all.
Re: next soccer question
I'd say you can safely put the FIFA top 6 + Italy, Portugal, Spain and Germany as more talented teams in personnel than the US. That's 10 right there.
Let's take a look at a team I think falls around our level - Uruguay.
I used starting lineups in the last World Cup, switched in Gio ( since I figure this would be a pain point vs Greg ) and Antonee Robinson ( bummer he got hurt ), and this tool:
https://football-observatory.com/Tool-Value
Uruguay's value was 375M.
USA's was 210M.
And that's with Gio and Antonee - without they'd be 190.
Let's take a look at a team I think falls around our level - Uruguay.
I used starting lineups in the last World Cup, switched in Gio ( since I figure this would be a pain point vs Greg ) and Antonee Robinson ( bummer he got hurt ), and this tool:
https://football-observatory.com/Tool-Value
Uruguay's value was 375M.
USA's was 210M.
And that's with Gio and Antonee - without they'd be 190.
Re: next soccer question
I left Croatia out, since they are in that top 10, on purpose bc I think they are probably on par with the US. Went back to check and they add up to 240M.
Another team who I really like and think have a good amount of talent is Switzerland so I took a look and they are at 235M.
And Morocco, who faired very well in the last cup and is ranked above us, came out to 220M.
Netherlands? 380.
England? 805!
All this is to say, I think how we showed in the last World Cup is on par with our talent level.
I think we could have beaten a few teams that made it to the second round ( Senegal, Poland, Australia ) and could have lost to a few teams that didn't make it there as well ( Belgium, Germany, Uruguay ).
Another team who I really like and think have a good amount of talent is Switzerland so I took a look and they are at 235M.
And Morocco, who faired very well in the last cup and is ranked above us, came out to 220M.
Netherlands? 380.
England? 805!
All this is to say, I think how we showed in the last World Cup is on par with our talent level.
I think we could have beaten a few teams that made it to the second round ( Senegal, Poland, Australia ) and could have lost to a few teams that didn't make it there as well ( Belgium, Germany, Uruguay ).
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NewtonHawk11
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Re: next soccer question
You’re content. That’s fine. I don’t think Gregg is the coach to lead this program in its most important cycle in history.
“I don’t remember anything he said, but it was a very memorable speech.” Julian Wright on a speech Michael Jordan gave to a group he was in
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
Re: next soccer question
I guess it's more that he deserves it.
If we could hire Nick Saban to KU tomorrow, sure, let's do it, but he's probably not taking the job. Leipold has us back in contention and he deserves more time to do so.
I'd love to have seen behind the curtain to see what candidates they were after and which ones said no, because i'm guessing there were targets that did, and then the candidates that were left weren't home runs.
Rumor is Patrick Vieira was contacted. Would he be far and away with his 12th place finishes in the Premiership better than Berhalter who knows US soccer? Maybe? But even if yes, did Vieira turn the US down?
If we could hire Nick Saban to KU tomorrow, sure, let's do it, but he's probably not taking the job. Leipold has us back in contention and he deserves more time to do so.
I'd love to have seen behind the curtain to see what candidates they were after and which ones said no, because i'm guessing there were targets that did, and then the candidates that were left weren't home runs.
Rumor is Patrick Vieira was contacted. Would he be far and away with his 12th place finishes in the Premiership better than Berhalter who knows US soccer? Maybe? But even if yes, did Vieira turn the US down?
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NewtonHawk11
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Re: next soccer question
He only deserves it because the best talent the US has ever seen gets him out of the mistakes he causes with his tactical weaknesses.
He HAS to let the players play. If he does that, great. All for it. But he's shown that he hasn't done it. For US, for the Crew and for the 2nd division Swedish team he was fired from for "lack of attacking play" That same team won the 2nd division in Sweden the very next year.
We have guys who can play. They can do things with their feet the US fans have rarely seen in the Stars and Stripes. We can't go back to Arena-ball of spray and pray. We also can't sit back and play possession style of soccer either. We're not to that level. We need to find a good mix of that. And I think Gregg's too dumb to figure that style out.
He HAS to let the players play. If he does that, great. All for it. But he's shown that he hasn't done it. For US, for the Crew and for the 2nd division Swedish team he was fired from for "lack of attacking play" That same team won the 2nd division in Sweden the very next year.
We have guys who can play. They can do things with their feet the US fans have rarely seen in the Stars and Stripes. We can't go back to Arena-ball of spray and pray. We also can't sit back and play possession style of soccer either. We're not to that level. We need to find a good mix of that. And I think Gregg's too dumb to figure that style out.
“I don’t remember anything he said, but it was a very memorable speech.” Julian Wright on a speech Michael Jordan gave to a group he was in
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
Re: next soccer question
Counterpoint (and I don't disagree with what you are saying in general) - BJ Callaghan was hired by Gregggg and put them in the 4-2-3-1 formation and kicked Mexico's ass (a potentially very diminished Mexico). Maybe that's something. Or maybe that means BJ Callaghan should've gotten the job.
Re: next soccer question
I think we just disagree on the level of talent the US has. I’ve given a lot of proof ( in minutes played in the top 4 leagues and in transfer value - see a couple posts above ) that they don’t have the horses to expect more than what they did the last cup.
None of our guys are stars on good teams. Many of our guys don’t even start. Our best guy Pulisic couldn’t crack the lineup and is moving teams. Dest was coming off the bench. So is Gio. Matt Turner wasn’t starting. One of our starting forwards played in the English 2nd division. One of our other forwards , Weah, has been shifted to fullback. Aaronson and Adams just got relegated. Ream and Robinson play decent minutes on a mid level team so that’s something. Musah played on a trash Valencia. Our nation is 17th in minutes played in the best league in the world. Where is this talent? I’m serious. Where?
It’s like if someone expected a team of all the B12s very best bench players to be a team that should make the elite 8.
None of our guys are stars on good teams. Many of our guys don’t even start. Our best guy Pulisic couldn’t crack the lineup and is moving teams. Dest was coming off the bench. So is Gio. Matt Turner wasn’t starting. One of our starting forwards played in the English 2nd division. One of our other forwards , Weah, has been shifted to fullback. Aaronson and Adams just got relegated. Ream and Robinson play decent minutes on a mid level team so that’s something. Musah played on a trash Valencia. Our nation is 17th in minutes played in the best league in the world. Where is this talent? I’m serious. Where?
It’s like if someone expected a team of all the B12s very best bench players to be a team that should make the elite 8.
Re: next soccer question
I don’t know if it’s more showing the US still doesn’t care about soccer or if the CONCACAF Nations Final is a dumb competition but it’s on Paramount Plus and no one has that.
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NewtonHawk11
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Re: next soccer question
Univision for me tonight. Spanish speaking soccer is the most fun ti listen to even tho I have no clue what they’re saying.
“I don’t remember anything he said, but it was a very memorable speech.” Julian Wright on a speech Michael Jordan gave to a group he was in
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
"But don’t ever get it twisted, it’s Rock Chalk forever." MG
Re: next soccer question
Hey look that’s what a striker looks like.
Re: next soccer question
Fell asleep in the second.
Looked good when we had possession but Canada, even in the first, had more of it.
Good result though.
Gold Cup continues next.
Also why is Qatar in it again?
Looked good when we had possession but Canada, even in the first, had more of it.
Good result though.
Gold Cup continues next.
Also why is Qatar in it again?
Re: next soccer question
"I just have to give credit where credit's due and it does frustrate me a little bit, and just seeing just all the negative press towards him that people tell me about, and I can't fully understand it exactly," Pulisic told ESPN's Herculez Gomez in an interview for Futbol Americas.
He's come in and won the Nations League, won the Gold Cup, we win the Nations League again. Had a solid World Cup. Are there things that you can criticize here and there? Sure. And I think he'd agree with that, but it just seems a bit crazy to me."
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... lter-crazy
He's come in and won the Nations League, won the Gold Cup, we win the Nations League again. Had a solid World Cup. Are there things that you can criticize here and there? Sure. And I think he'd agree with that, but it just seems a bit crazy to me."
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... lter-crazy