Israel/Palestine

Ugh.
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mjl2
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:30 am I have no comment on this. I am simply just sharing it.

Before I read his "blog" post, I read this from him.....
I've heard this sentiment from way too many of my Jewish friends and family and haven't seen anybody else write it out yet. Please understand this wasn't written in anger.



Why you might have lost all your Jewish friends this week and didn’t even know it.

October 13, 2023Josh Gilman
I do not want to be writing this article. I’ve been waiting for someone else to write it. But, nobody else has, and somebody needs to say this.

You might have lost every last one of your Jewish friends this week, and you have no idea why. Please be patient with me as I try to explain. I’m going to be explaining things that are totally foreign to you. I didn’t even know I felt and thought this way until a couple of days ago myself.

When you are Jewish, you are always aware that there is a large population in the world that wants to kill you.

Even if they aren’t trying now, you read history and you see that every few generations, at the very least, some group tries to kill all or at least a lot of Jewish people.

We may like your posts that say “never again,” but we never fully believe it.

On Saturday, October 7th, we were reminded that we were right not to.

More Jews died in one day than any day since the Holocaust. And the reality is that while we felt shock, we didn’t necessarily feel surprise.

When my sisters were quite young, they used to play “hiding from the Nazis.” This wasn’t hide and seek; they would just pick a place to hide, under a couch, behind a freezer, and just lie still for hours. Once, they hid in our van for way too long, and my parents couldn’t find them, and they got in a lot of trouble.

They were genuinely “playing”; it was truly a game to them. But it’s just to hammer home the point that Jewish children grow up with the Holocaust being a part of our history and an intrinsic understanding that at some point, we may need to hide again.

Over the past few years, as the world in general has just gotten crazier than ever, it has become popular to post things like “If you think you would have been one of the ones who hid Jews in WWII but are afraid of speaking up about _____, you wouldn’t have been.”

It’s honestly a generally fair assessment because if you aren’t the kind of person who can handle criticism for a non-conventional belief of any sort, you surely aren’t the kind of person who would risk the Gestapo knocking on your door for hiding people. I’ve seen so many posts like this over the past 2 years.

But… here is what your Jewish friends are wondering right now. So, why didn’t you post… this time?

And that’s not an accusatory, WHY DIDN’T YOU POST!? It’s a genuine question. Because they need to know the answer.

Maybe you didn’t post something because you are ignorant about what took place.

Maybe you didn’t say something to your Jewish friends because you truly don’t understand that they consider every slaughtered baby, raped girl, and murdered man to be their own family.

Maybe you are so horrified by it all that you truly don’t know what words to say.

Maybe you are still wondering what to say.

Well, it breaks my heart to tell you what your Jewish friends are wondering.

They are wondering if you are safe.

They are seeing many others cave to the propaganda, the vitriol from the Hamas apologists; they are seeing the pro-Hamas protests and the threats to the world, and they are wondering if you are too afraid to speak.

And they know that if you are too afraid to speak, then you would be too afraid to hide them.

Did you know that that is a category of friend that every Jewish person has in their mind? Who would I run to? Who would hide me?

We don’t wonder if; we wonder when. Because we know that whether it is indeed us, or whether it is our brothers and sisters in Israel, or in France, or in Pittsburgh, it will happen again somewhere.

It wasn’t until this last weekend that I realized that I have lived my whole life treating the world as guilty until proven innocent. That until you are proven safe to me, I hold you in mild suspicion. I didn’t even realize that I’ve always done this.

When an Arabic barber is trimming my beard with a sharp blade and comments on my complexion and says “are you Arabic?” I don’t answer truthfully. I say that my grandfather was from Lithuania. (He was; it’s not a lie, it’s just not the truth.)

When a stranger says “what is your family background,” I almost always change the subject.

Dear friends who may feel this blog is written to you. I am not saying I fear you or that I don’t love you. I’m just trying to let you know that unless you have proven that you will stand with me, I will not run to your home if they come for me and my family.

I am also not saying that silence is support. I do not believe that everyone who hasn’t posted support for the Jewish people and for Israel is complicit. But… I am not totally sure if you are safe. And none of your other Jewish friends are sure either.

I’m sure this offends you. How unfair to fail an audition you didn’t know you were having.

And yes, it is unfair.

But I’m sorry to say your Jewish friends aren’t wondering about fairness right now. They are only wondering about safety.

This post might seem angry; I’m not. I’m just sad. Sad for everything that has happened, sad for the friends I’ve heard from who haven’t heard from a single non-Jewish friend with a message of love and support.

But here’s the other thing: it just takes one. One message, one post. The greatest soothing to my soul this past week has been seeing friends and old colleagues post notes of support. It truly means the world. It’s not too late.

But consider this carefully, because it is not a game. If you read this and choose to reach out, choose to take a stand publicly. Choose to put your own reputation on the line and maybe even take some of the hatred toward the Jewish people and Israel for yourself. If you do this, we may believe you.

Do not take this lightly. The history of the Jewish people is not a light one. But it is filled with joy. Our victories have always risen above our tragedies. It is a history of suffering but overcoming suffering.

And throughout history, there have always been those who stand with us. From the Egyptians who joined the Israelites, following the pillar of fire and pillar of cloud, to the hundreds of thousands of gentiles who put their lives on the line to hide Jews in Europe during the Second World War.

There is a song we like to sing: Am Y’Israel Chai. “The people of Israel live.”

We always will. Many have tried to wipe us out. And yet we live.

I started this article explaining our pain, but I end it with a simple invitation to join us in our life. It means the world when you do.
Thanks Gutter.

I'm sure there are a lot of Jews that don't feel the same as the author there.

But that really, really resonated with me. The nuance and caveats are important - it's not combative at all.
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Shirley
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Re: Israel/Palestine

Post by Shirley »

^^^

Glad you posted that, Gutter.
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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I struggle with where to identify the line between expressing support and glomming onto grief.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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and of course, ‘muricans had to get in on the action…

6 year old Palestinian boy stabbed to death by Jewish landlord in Chicago (Plainfield). the boys mother was also stabbed, but survived
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RainbowsandUnicorns
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Re: Israel/Palestine

Post by RainbowsandUnicorns »

KUTradition wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:12 am and of course, ‘muricans had to get in on the action…

6 year old Palestinian boy stabbed to death by Jewish landlord in Chicago (Plainfield). the boys mother was also stabbed, but survived
Really? The landlord was Jewish? That's news to me - and also a really bad accusation if not true.
MICHHAWK wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:48 am
your posting history on this this site alone. says you should not be calling other people stupid.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:20 am
KUTradition wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:12 am and of course, ‘muricans had to get in on the action…

6 year old Palestinian boy stabbed to death by Jewish landlord in Chicago (Plainfield). the boys mother was also stabbed, but survived
Really? The landlord was Jewish? That's news to me - and also a really bad accusation if not true.
i thought i read that yesterday, but now am not seeing any reports of his ethnicity or religion

i apologize if untrue. it was irresponsible of me to post without being certain

edit: there were initial claims that he was of Polish-Jewish heritage, but those were apparently false

again, my mistake
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
RainbowsandUnicorns
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Re: Israel/Palestine

Post by RainbowsandUnicorns »

KUTradition wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:27 am
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:20 am
KUTradition wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:12 am and of course, ‘muricans had to get in on the action…

6 year old Palestinian boy stabbed to death by Jewish landlord in Chicago (Plainfield). the boys mother was also stabbed, but survived
Really? The landlord was Jewish? That's news to me - and also a really bad accusation if not true.
i thought i read that yesterday, but now am not seeing any reports of his ethnicity or religion

i apologize if untrue. it was irresponsible of me to post without being certain

edit: there were initial claims that he was of Polish-Jewish heritage, but those were apparently false

again, my mistake
You very well may have read it and heck, it very well might be true.
I don't feel it's "irresponsible" of you if that's what you thought you read/heard.
I just hadn't seen that mentioned anywhere.

I tend not to believe many/most things that are not verified and even then, I tend to be skeptical.
Seems more often than not, news media outlets struggle with things as simple as a victim and/or an assailants age - because they are in the rush to get out the news.
MICHHAWK wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:48 am
your posting history on this this site alone. says you should not be calling other people stupid.
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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because i do not have an agenda. i won't press the "submit" button until it has been vetted, verified and confirmed.
"hey don't blame me, i am going to vote for some random dude"
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Shirley
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Re: Israel/Palestine

Post by Shirley »

According to an NBC reporter who attended the hearing a little bit ago:

The landlord's wife said he had been listening to a lot of conservative talk radio quite a bit and became afraid due to the talk about a "National Day of Jihad", and although he had known his tenants were Palestinian for a long time, he became scared and wanted them out.
Last edited by Shirley on Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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MICHHAWK wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 11:48 am because i do not have an agenda. i won't press the "submit" button until it has been vetted, verified and confirmed.
so what’s my agenda, dumbass?
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Re: Israel/Palestine

Post by RainbowsandUnicorns »

KUTradition wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:00 pm
MICHHAWK wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 11:48 am because i do not have an agenda. i won't press the "submit" button until it has been vetted, verified and confirmed.
so what’s my agenda, dumbass?
I was going to ask MICH - "vetted, verified, and confirmed" by who/m?
SallyimafuckingmoronandbeleiveeverythingIreadseeandhear123 on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook or TikToc or....... ?
MICHHAWK wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 10:48 am
your posting history on this this site alone. says you should not be calling other people stupid.
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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MICHHAWK wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 11:48 am because i do not have an agenda. i won't press the "submit" button until it has been vetted, verified and confirmed.
You routinely press the "submit" button on posts that have no grounding in present reality.
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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dolomite
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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Iranian Parliament Speaker Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf warned that an Israeli invasion of the Gaza strip would "open the gates of Hell" for Israel and the region, according to Iranian state media.

Qalibaf made the statement during a Monday meeting of the Parliamentary Union of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC).

“The blockade of Gaza and cutting off the supply of water, electricity, medicine and food to this area is a clear example of genocide,” he said. “In addition, ( the use of non-conventional military weapons such as banned phosphorus bombs in these attacks violates international conventions on the prohibition of chemical weapons.")*

Israel has rejected claims that it used white phosphorus against anyone in Gaza. It says the substance is present only in smoke munitions that are not used against combatants directly.

What is it the U.S.Marines say?
If you’re not cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’.*
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MICHHAWK
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Re: Israel/Palestine

Post by MICHHAWK »

the first time someone plays by the rules in the middle east. will be the first time someone ever played by the rules in the middle east.
"hey don't blame me, i am going to vote for some random dude"
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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Iranian Foreign Minister warning of "preemptive action" in the next few hours...

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/stat ... 6862261697
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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DCHawk1 wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:46 pm "We don't want to escalate...but we're gonna escalate. K?"
ahem…

“finger on the trigger…”
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mjl2
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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mjl2 wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:56 am
jfish26 wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:29 am
Shirley wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 6:48 am It probably deserves its own thread, but the surprise Hamas/Palestinian multi-pronged attack on Israel this morning and the bloodbath that has resulted, is something to see. Some of the videos on twitter are so bloody and disturbing, I've chosen not to link them.

Considering the complexity of the attack, it's hard to believe Israeli intelligence was taken by surprise on such a massive scale.

It's hard not to think that Israel is going to respond forcefully, in a way we haven't previously seen.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a statement following a meeting in Tel Aviv at IDF headquarters:

“Citizens of the State of Israel, we are in a state of war. Not an operation, not an escalation, but a war.”
We are at war and we will win."
There's a lot we need to know here. Including whether there is outside support for this aggression.
Has to be. Palestinians aren't manufacturing these weapons in Gaza. And they aren't capable of coordinating something like this on their own.

Iran had every reason to do this. They won. Their goal is to stop the Israeli - Saudi normalization that appeared very close. They've probably succeeded.

The truly frightening possibility is that it goes beyond that - that they have nukes and will use the international backlash against what Israel is about to do as reason to use them.
So hopefully minus the nukes, seems like we are here
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Re: Israel/Palestine

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why is fox the only outlet reporting that iran is moving “people” and weapons to Israel’s northern border?
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
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