Bill Self w/ 2

[jfish26]

he so very clearly does not have similar skills and tools as Lowry....

randy with yesefu is like the reverse uno of Q and Braun.

Notice you added "skills"

I said physical tools. Which he does

Again, you're using an outlier as a benchmark. That's a pretty flimsy way to go about things.

[DeletedUser]

SO MANY TIMES he tried to put the team on his back and it was very hard to watch as he got eaten up.

For the record: From the beginning of conference play his Junior season until the end of his career Sherron Collins lost 7 total games. 3 games his entire senior season.

[pdub]

he so very clearly does not have similar skills and tools as Lowry....

randy with yesefu is like the reverse uno of Q and Braun.

Notice you added "skills"

I said physical tools. Which he does

“ This guy is really really good. I know our starting back court seemed pretty locked in with harris braun and agbaji. but this guy might be better than all of them. I watched both his games against WSU and USC and he was incredible. reminds me a lot of kyle lowry”

[TDub]

he so very clearly does not have similar skills and tools as Lowry....

randy with yesefu is like the reverse uno of Q and Braun.

Notice you added "skills"

I said physical tools. Which he does

what tools?

he has arms and legs?

me too

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Best career at KU:
1. Sherron
2. Frank
3. Devonte

Best at basketball:
1. Devonte
2. Frank
3. Sherron

I can't put someone ahead, in college career, of a NPOY.

FWIW....
Yes, Frank won a NPOY.
Sherron's best season he didn't win NPOY. Blake Griffin won.
Frank's best season he wouldn't have won it over Griffin's 08-09 season either.

[pdub]

Frank would have won it easily over Sherron Collins though.

[KUTradition]

he so very clearly does not have similar skills and tools as Lowry....

randy with yesefu is like the reverse uno of Q and Braun.

Notice you added "skills"

I said physical tools. Which he does

“ This guy is really really good. I know our starting back court seemed pretty locked in with harris braun and agbaji. but this guy might be better than all of them. I watched both his games against WSU and USC and he was incredible. reminds me a lot of kyle lowry”

awesome

[randylahey]

he so very clearly does not have similar skills and tools as Lowry....

randy with yesefu is like the reverse uno of Q and Braun.

Notice you added "skills"

I said physical tools. Which he does

I know about 50 guys with a similar build to Lowry.
One of them is a mail man.

He got a lighting quick first step and 40+ vert?

[Overlander]

Notice you added "skills"

I said physical tools. Which he does

I know about 50 guys with a similar build to Lowry.
One of them is a mail man.

He got a lighting quick first step and 40+ vert?

Not sure. Is that what we are considering "tools"?

[DrPepper]

SO MANY TIMES he tried to put the team on his back and it was very hard to watch as he got eaten up.

For the record: From the beginning of conference play his Junior season until the end of his career Sherron Collins lost 7 total games. 3 games his entire senior season.

I didn’t say Kansas lost the games. Ron Ron would challenge players, they’d steal the ball and jam it. He’d force a shot and miss it. It wasn’t senior Perry Ellis bad (getting stuffed under the basket (bad), but taking the shot late in the clock from point blank range(good)). Kinda the opposite in that there was very little restraint. A fine line between dog that wins games and attitude that sets a bad example.
I know it was early in a season so this game shouldn’t be anyone’s final grade, but there was a Kansas versus Syracuse game that sticks out in my mind as a time when Sherron was hard to watch. Maybe it was the only time he was hard to watch.Maybe we won the game. One of the greats and he loved playing for Kansas.

[TDub]

we did not win that game. fuckin Johnny Flynn.

But, Sherron saved our asses more times than he cost us.

[TDub]

Sherron vs Willie Warren as an amazing battle.

of course, then Devonte ans Frank had an even better game against OU in one of the best games I've ever seen. 3OT, #1 vs #2.

Though, it should be noted that the best player in that particular game might have been Perry Ellis, if my memory is correct. I drank many nervous beers that game.

[DeletedUser]

SO MANY TIMES he tried to put the team on his back and it was very hard to watch as he got eaten up.

For the record: From the beginning of conference play his Junior season until the end of his career Sherron Collins lost 7 total games. 3 games his entire senior season.

I didn’t say Kansas lost the games. Ron Ron would challenge players, they’d steal the ball and jam it.

Fun fact of the day:

In their senior season's Sherron averaged less turnovers per game than Devonte on nearly identical usage rates.

[pdub]

Juuuuuuust barely but yes.

In their senior seasons Vonte averaged almost 2 more PPG and almost 3 more APG.

[DeletedUser]

Juuuuuuust barely but yes.

In their senior seasons Vonte averaged almost 2 more PPG and almost 3 more APG.

Diving a little deeper into those stats:

Devonte shot .7 more FGs per game and 1.4 more FTs per game.

Devonte also played 4.7 more minutes per game. Partly because the SC senior team destroyed a lot of opponents and DG senior year team lost 8 games.

The 17-18 team attempted 60.7 FGs per game with 16.6 assists per game.

The 09-10 team attempted 58.6 FGs per game with 16.9 assists per game.

That 17-18 team was fun to watch when they got going and the shots were falling. 3 really good 3pt shooters in that starting lineup.

[pdub]

Well the FT's don't do much to help what I think your argument is ( Sherron was better in his senior year than Devonte ).
The FT's are actually in Devonte's favor because that means he got to the line more - which you want from your players ( maybe even more so your point guard - especially when that point guard is shooting 83% from the line ).
The almost one extra shot per game though is slightly valid, yes, but not enough to make up for that PPG differential.

The 2 more FG's per game with a .3 assist difference wasn't even worth mentioning unless you were just pointing out some fun facts.

[randylahey]

Hard to compare devonte and sherrons senior years, considering how different those rosters were. Sherron should've been muchhh more efficient on a much more loaded roster, where devonte had to carry his team more

[DeletedUser]

Well the FT's don't do much to help what I think your argument is ( Sherron was better in his senior year than Devonte ).... unless you were just pointing out some fun facts.

I wasn't saying Sherron was better than DG senior season. I was just comparing their stats. I think Devonte is absolutely better at basketball than Sherron.

My entire argument for why I rank Sherron #1 (for KU career only) is because he was better longer. 2x AA. Won a national title. Sherron lost 19 total games at KU and was a key part of probably top 2 most dominant 4yr stretch of the Self era (team results wise).

Devonte lost 27 games at KU.
Frank lost 29 games at KU.

[pdub]

Basketball is a team sport so total wins don’t do much for me.

It helps when Sherron is on a team ( coming off the bench ) that’s the best Self has ever had.

[DeletedUser]

It helps when Sherron is on a team ( coming off the bench ) that’s the best Self has ever had.

It does help....although just because he came off the bench doesn't take away from his importance to that team. He was probably the 4th best player on that team.

It also helps when as a senior you lead your team to a 33-3 record.