Foreign aid to ukraine

[Overlander]

JFish is right.
What is even more shocking, I saw 2 men holding hands walking down the street yesterday.

How in the hell am I supposed to just go about my day after witnessing something so horrific?

[Overlander]

you watch how good they will have it. as uncle progresses through his re-election campaign/cycle.

What’s stopping your (and Randy’s) transition to “the good life”: ie. Relinquishing your US citizenship, acquiring a Honduran citizenship and living in the US?

Only after they trek a few hundred miles through some of the most dangerous terrain in the world....

[jfish26]

you watch how good they will have it. as uncle progresses through his re-election campaign/cycle.

What’s stopping your (and Randy’s) transition to “the good life”: ie. Relinquishing your US citizenship, acquiring a Honduran citizenship and living in the US?

Whoa whoa whoa.

Transition?

Will your obsession with identity politics ever end.

[ousdahl]

It is simply true that you have more or less adopted each of the major pillars of his case for making war on Ukraine.

To wit:

“Russia is seeking peace” [in your last post, you talk about "when Putin tried to engage us about it diplomatically, [we told] him to pound sand"]
“Russia has a moral obligation to do something about security in the region” [in many posts, you accept Russia as being at least partly justified in making war on Ukraine]
“Ukraine is aggressive” (including attempts to associate Ukraine with terrorism, Nazis, and weapons of mass destruction) [you have supported Russia's association of Ukraine with Nazis and defense contracting firms]
“The West is creating tensions in the region” [see, among many other things, your quoted post]
“Ukraine is a puppet of the West” [see, among many other things, your quoted post]

You might not like it. I wouldn't, either. But if you cannot see that you are pretty much falling in line behind Putin here, you are simply choosing not to see it.

you've brought this up several times, so let's break each point down, one by one:

“Russia is seeking peace”

This sounds Orwellian. Russia is seeking peace so they declare war? Yeah right.

But, as far as diplomacy goes, there have been reports published, and shared here, that Putin tried to engage the West diplomatically about the Ukraine situation. The West, particularly Biden, not only told Putin to shove that diplomacy up his ass. The water also shunned the one western leader, Emmanuel "The Human Macaron" Macron, who DID think diplomacy was worth a try. It's almost like the West WANTED Putin to escalate war in Ukraine. Almost like they provoked him, just like the Obama administration said would happen. You are simply choosing not to see it.

But heck, "seeking peace," though bullshit rhetoric, is still better bullshit rhetoric than "...for no matter how long it takes." At least Putin is willing to say "peace" out loud, right?


“Russia has a moral obligation to do something about security in the region”


this is the same shit any country would say if the security in the region (militancy on their doorstep) became an issue. It gets back to the US's long-standing policy of "do as I say not as I do" global militancy. You are simply choosing not to see it. If Russia tried the same thing on us, we would, and DID, do the exact same shit - and likely with even less thought given to diplomacy.

ohh, and btw, and AGAIN, I've never said Russia is justified about shit. That's you, AGAIN, putting words in my mouth.


“Ukraine is aggressive” (including attempts to associate Ukraine with terrorism, Nazis, and weapons of mass destruction)


Ukraine IS aggressive. You are simply choosing not to see it.

There's been some sort of civil war, guerrilla fighting, "if brown folks were doing this we would call it terrorism" going on there for years now, particularly since that coup that...well...somebody staged. I'm not saying the US DID do it, but I'm saying that the coup, despite further destabilizing Ukraine, somehow also made Ukraine a safe enough place for none other than the Joe Bidens of the world to suddenly start holding political pep rallies there, and for U.S. corporations to treat the place as yet another investment opportunity. You are simply choosing not to see it.

And, yes, there are nazis in Ukraine! I think Putin pointing to is it more bullshit Putin rhetoric to help him try and justify his bullshit invasion. But, that doesn't change the fact Ukraine very much has a far right, Uber-nationalist, ethno-militant presence there, up to and including this critical mass of concerning nostalgia for Nazi fucking Germany. Yes, THAT Nazi fucking Germany. (even though we all know Putin is literally Hitler anyway)

Remember that time NATO tweeted a photo of a Ukrainian fighter with a Sonnenrad on her uniform? Remember those times (plural) Zelensky posted social media pics of himself surrounded by his security detail of Ukrainian soldiers wearing nazi insignia? Remember that time a Ukrainian general posted a pic of himself wearing swastika jewelry? Remember that time DCHawk1 posted a pic of a Ukrainian tank decked out in Third Reich symbols? Remember that time the New York Times wrote an article like," yes Ukraine really is full of nazis, and we've been intentionally misleading about that to make Ukraine appear otherwise"? Remember when each of those things was shared here?

Of course you don't. Because you are simply choosing not to see it.

oh, and WMDs, lol. That's not me puppeting Putin. That's Putin puppeting the United States.


“The West is creating tensions in the region”


this feels gross to say, and it is no doubt going to blow your western-propaganda-poisoned mind, but, I agree with Putin here. The West IS, and for decades HAS BEEN, creating tensions in the region. Ever hear of NATO expansion? Ever hear of Project Aerodynamic? Heck, ever hear of the Cold War?

You are simply choosing not to see it.


“Ukraine is a puppet of the West”


Let's go for devil's advocate downer pity on this one. What if Ukraine IS a puppet of the West? What if "the West" cares about the people of Ukraine about as much as they care about the people of Afghanistan or the people of Iraq or the people of Vietnam? Which is to say, what if the West doesn't give one flying fuck about the people of Ukraine? (come on bro, don't act like you had any concern for Ukraine, at all, until the Western war rhetoric suddenly convinced you to.)

(I know I know, "this is nothing like the other wars!" Okay, please demonstrate that. It's been suggested, but to date, I don't recall anyone actually trying to distinguish the purported differences, even after I identified so many similarities between Ukraine and those other wars...wait, nm, I guess the other day someone said it's different because at least it's minimal US lives on the line. Cuz who cares about Ukrainian lives? Oh.)

The point is, I think "the West" is interested in Ukraine less for the liberation of the people of Ukraine, and more using Ukraine as a pawn for things like - as you yourself have championed! - creating MIC economic windfalls, and weakening Russia, and sending a signal to China, and global energy markets (for real could you imagine how pissed we'd be if it really was Russia who blew up an international gas pipeline instead of our Ukraine puppets doing it?), and oil, oil, oil! (Halliburton lulz), and various other "free market capitalist" investment opportunities (gee I wonder why Zelensky's been meeting with Blackrock).

overall, and as much as it pains me to say it, and this is in no way an endorsement of Putin, but I think Putin's talking points here make a tad more sense on some objective global level than the "Ukraine good Russia bad, this is a simple battle between good and evil, no matter how long it takes! We really do care about the Ukrainian people, it's so totally different than the other wars!" And somehow, despite the US war machine's credibility otherwise being at least a little compromised of late, the western hawks just can't get enough of it.

But in a sense, any war against Russia may be an easier sell than war against places like Iraq and Afghanistan - even with the WMDs rhetoric, even with the "but they're harboring bin Laden" rhetoric. It's cuz we've all been conditioned by imperial Cold War rhetoric for our entire fucking lives to hate Russia unconditionally, no matter how rotten "the West" is acting ourselves.

You are simply choosing not to see it.

If you don't believe me, consider that when I asked over and over, "why do we think the "WMDs In Iraq" dipshits are suddenly playing us so straight about Ukraine?", no one could even attempt to answer but you, and your only answer was, "but Russia is a boogeyman!" Which, of course, is your perception formed overwhelmingly by the dipshit rhetoric.

You are simply choosing not to see it.

now, quick! Tell me something like, I'm overcomplicating a a complex geopolitical issue that's actually quite simple, but don't bother articulating why!

cuz, of course a complex issue can appear simple, when you are simply choosing not to see it.

[ousdahl]

Could you imagine if Biden was using the big chair to side step congress and get shit done not for weapons sales to right wing ethno-militant foreign gummints, but anything that might actually benefit the US people?

Anything at all!

Healthcare or housing or debt or weed or infrastructure or anything! Improved with the stroke of a pen! (Or at least performatively gestured toward)

Who knows…maybe even Biden could make himself popular enough to not be so vulnerable to loose reelection!

"Anything at all!"?

smh

As of December 22, 2023, President Joe Biden (D) had signed 128 executive orders...

Each of these presidential documents is different in authority and implementation. Executive orders are directives written by the president to officials within the executive branch requiring them to take or stop some action related to policy or management. They are numbered, published in the Federal Register, and cite the authority by which the president is making the order.[1][2]



October 2023
Executive Order on the Safe, Secure, and Trustworthy Development and Use of Artificial Intelligence (October 30, 2023)

September 2023
Executive Order on the Continuance of Certain Federal Advisory Committees and Amendments to Other Executive Orders (September 29, 2023)
Executive Order on Ensuring the People of East Palestine Are Protected Now and in the Future (September 20, 2023)

August 2023
Executive Order on United States Coast Guard Officer Personnel Management (August 14, 2023)
Executive Order on Addressing United States Investments in Certain National Security Technologies and Products in Countries of Concern (August 9, 2023)

July 2023
Executive Order on Federal Research and Development in Support of Domestic Manufacturing and United States Jobs (July 28, 2023)
Executive Order on 2023 Amendments to the Manual for Courts-Martial, United States (July 28, 2023)

June 2023
Executive Order on Strengthening Access to Affordable, High-Quality Contraception and Family Planning Services (June 23, 2023)
Executive Order on Advancing Economic Security for Military and Veteran Spouses, Military Caregivers, and Survivors (June 9, 2023)

May 2023
Executive Order on Moving Beyond COVID-⁠19 Vaccination Requirements for Federal Workers (May 9, 2023)
Executive Order on Imposing Sanctions on Certain Persons Destabilizing Sudan and Undermining the Goal of a Democratic Transition (May 4, 2023)

April 2023
Executive Order on Authority to Order the Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty to Address International Drug Trafficking (April 27, 2023)
Executive Order on Revitalizing Our Nation’s Commitment to Environmental Justice for All (April 21, 2023)
Executive Order on Increasing Access to High-Quality Care and Supporting Caregivers (April 18, 2023)
Executive Order on Modernizing Regulatory Review (April 6, 2023)

March 2023
Executive Order on Prohibition on Use by the United States Government of Commercial Spyware that Poses Risks to National Security (March 27, 2023)
Executive Order on Reducing Gun Violence and Making Our Communities Safer (March 14, 2023)

February 2023
Executive Order on Further Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through The Federal Government (February 16, 2023)

December 2022
Executive Order on Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay (December 23, 2022)
Executive Order on Establishing the President’s Advisory Council on African Diaspora Engagement in the United States (December 13, 2022)

October 2022
Executive Order on Taking Additional Steps to Address the National Emergency With Respect to the Situation in Nicaragua (October 24, 2022)
Executive Order on Lowering Prescription Drug Costs for Americans (October 14, 2022)
Executive Order On Enhancing Safeguards For United States Signals Intelligence Activities (October 7, 2022)
Executive Order on Expanding Eligibility For Certain Military Decorations And Awards (October 3, 2022)

September 2022
Executive Order on Promoting the Arts, the Humanities, and Museum and Library Services (September 30, 2022)
Executive Order on Ensuring Robust Consideration of Evolving National Security Risks by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (September 15, 2022)
Executive Order on the Implementation of the Energy and Infrastructure Provisions of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 (September 12, 2022)
Executive Order on Advancing Biotechnology and Biomanufacturing Innovation for a Sustainable, Safe, and Secure American Bioeconomy (September 12, 2022)

August 2022
Executive Order on the Implementation of the CHIPS Act of 2022 (August 25, 2022)
Executive Order on Securing Access to Reproductive and Other Healthcare Services (August 3, 2022)

July 2022
Executive Order on Bolstering Efforts to Bring Hostages and Wrongfully Detained United States Nationals Home (July 19, 2022)
Executive Order on Establishing an Emergency Board to Investigate Disputes Between Certain Railroads Represented by the National Carriers’ Conference Committee of the National Railway Labor Conference and Their Employees Represented by Certain Labor Organizations (July 15, 2022)
Executive Order on Protecting Access to Reproductive Healthcare Services (July 8, 2022)

June 2022
Executive Order on Advancing Equality for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex Individuals (June 15, 2022)

May 2022
Executive Order on Advancing Effective, Accountable Policing and Criminal Justice Practices to Enhance Public Trust and Public Safety (May 25, 2022)
Executive Order on Enhancing the National Quantum Initiative Advisory Committee (May 4, 2022)

April 2022
Executive Order on Strengthening the Nation’s Forests, Communities, and Local Economies (April 22, 2022)
Prohibiting New Investment in and Certain Services to the Russian Federation in Response to Continued Russian Federation Aggression (April 6, 2022)
Executive Order on Continuing to Strengthen Americans’ Access to Affordable, Quality Health Coverage (April 5, 2022)

March 2022
Executive Order on Advancing Economy, Efficiency, and Effectiveness in Federal Contracting by Promoting Pay Equity and Transparency (March 15, 2022)
Executive Order on Prohibiting Certain Imports, Exports, and New Investment with Respect to Continued Russian Federation Aggression (March 11, 2022)
Executive Order on Ensuring Responsible Development of Digital Assets (March 9, 2022)
Executive Order on Prohibiting Certain Imports and New Investments With Respect to Continued Russian Federation Efforts to Undermine the Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity of Ukraine (March 8, 2022)

February 2022
Executive Order on Blocking Property of Certain Persons and Prohibiting Certain Transactions With Respect to Continued Russian Efforts to Undermine the Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity of Ukraine (February 21, 2022)
Executive Order on Protecting Certain Property of Da Afghanistan Bank for the Benefit of the People of Afghanistan (February 11, 2022)
Executive Order on Use of Project Labor Agreements For Federal Construction Projects (February 4, 2022)

January 2022
Executive Order on 2022 Amendments to the Manual for Courts-Martial, United States (January 26, 2022
)
December 2021
Executive Order on Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay (December 22, 2021)
Executive Order on Establishing the United States Council on Transnational Organized Crime (December 15, 2021)
Executive Order on Imposing Sanctions on Foreign Persons Involved in the Global Illicit Drug Trade (December 15, 2021)
Executive Order on Transforming Federal Customer Experience and Service Delivery to Rebuild Trust in Government (December 13, 2021)
Executive Order on Catalyzing Clean Energy Industries and Jobs Through Federal Sustainability (December 8, 2021)
Executive Order on the National Space Council (December 1, 2021)

November 2021
Executive Order on Nondisplacement of Qualified Workers Under Service Contracts (November 18, 2021)
Executive Order on the Termination of Emergency With Respect To the Situation in Burundi (November 18, 2021)
Executive Order on Implementation of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (November 15, 2021)
Executive Order on Improving Public Safety and Criminal Justice for Native Americans and Addressing the Crisis of Missing or Murdered Indigenous People (November 15, 2021)

October 2021
Executive Order on the Designation to Exercise Authority Over the National Defense Stockpile (October 31, 2021)
Executive Order on White House Initiative on Advancing Educational Equity, Excellence, and Economic Opportunity for Black Americans (October 19, 2021)
Executive Order on the White House Initiative on Advancing Educational Equity, Excellence, and Economic Opportunity for Native Americans and Strengthening Tribal Colleges and Universities (October 11, 2021)

September 2021
Executive Order on Continuance or Reestablishment of Certain Federal Advisory Committees and Amendments to Other Executive Orders (September 30, 2021)
Executive Order on Adding Measles to the List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases (September 17, 2021)
Executive Order on Imposing Sanctions on Certain Persons With Respect to the Humanitarian and Human Rights Crisis in Ethiopia (September 17, 2021)
Executive Order on Amending Executive Order 14007 (September 13, 2021)
Executive Order on White House Initiative on Advancing Educational Equity, Excellence, and Economic Opportunity for Hispanics (September 13, 2021)
Executive Order on Ensuring Adequate COVID Safety Protocols for Federal Contractors (September 9, 2021)
Executive Order on Requiring Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination for Federal Employees (September 9, 2021)
Executive Order on Declassification Review of Certain Documents Concerning the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 (September 3, 2021)
Executive Order on White House Initiative on Advancing Educational Equity, Excellence, and Economic Opportunity through Historically Black Colleges and Universities (September 3, 2021)
August 2021
Executive Order on Blocking Property with Respect to Certain Russian Energy Export Pipelines (August 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Blocking Property of Additional Persons Contributing to the Situation in Belarus (August 9, 2021)
Executive Order on Strengthening American Leadership in Clean Cars and Trucks (August 5, 2021]

July 2021
Executive Order on Promoting Competition in the American Economy (July 9, 2021)

June 2021
Executive Order on Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Accessibility in the Federal Workforce (June 25, 2021)
Executive Order on Protecting Americans’ Sensitive Data from Foreign Adversaries (June 9, 2021)
Executive Order on Blocking Property And Suspending Entry Into The United States Of Certain Persons Contributing To The Destabilizing Situation In The Western Balkans (June 8, 2021)
Executive Order on Addressing the Threat from Securities Investments that Finance Certain Companies of the People’s Republic of China (June 3, 2021)

May 2021
Executive Order on Advancing Equity, Justice, and Opportunity for Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders (May 28, 2021)
Executive Order on Climate-Related Financial Risk (May 20, 2021)
Executive Order on the Revocation of Certain Presidential Actions and Technical Amendment (May 14, 2021)
Executive Order on Improving the Nation’s Cybersecurity (May 12, 2021)
Executive Order on the Establishment of the Climate Change Support Office (May 7, 2021)

April 2021
Executive Order on Increasing the Minimum Wage for Federal Contractors (April 27, 2021)
Executive Order on Worker Organizing and Empowerment (April 26, 2021)
Executive Order on Blocking Property with Respect to Specified Harmful Foreign Activities of the Government of the Russian Federation (April 15, 2021)
Executive Order on the Establishment of the Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court of the United States (April 9, 2021)
Executive Order on the Termination of Emergency With Respect to the International Criminal Court (April 1, 2021)

March 2021
Executive Order on Establishment of the White House Gender Policy Council (March 8, 2021)
Executive Order on Guaranteeing an Educational Environment Free from Discrimination on the Basis of Sex, Including Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity (March 8, 2021)
Executive Order on Promoting Access to Voting (March 7, 2021)

February 2021
Executive Order on the Revocation of Certain Presidential Actions (February 24, 2021)
Executive Order on America’s Supply Chains (February 24, 2021)
Executive Order on the Revocation of Executive Order 13801 (February 17, 2021)
Executive Order on the Establishment of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (February 14, 2021)
Executive Order on Blocking Property with Respect to the Situation in Burma (February 11, 2021)
Executive Order on Rebuilding and Enhancing Programs to Resettle Refugees and Planning for the Impact of Climate Change on Migration (February 4, 2021)
Executive Order on the Establishment of Interagency Task Force on the Reunification of Families (February 2, 2021)
Executive Order on Creating a Comprehensive Regional Framework to Address the Causes of Migration, to Manage Migration Throughout North and Central America, and to Provide Safe and Orderly Processing of Asylum Seekers at the United States Border (February 2, 2021)
Executive Order on Restoring Faith in Our Legal Immigration Systems and Strengthening Integration and Inclusion Efforts for New Americans (February 2, 2021)

January 2021
Executive Order on Strengthening Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act (January 28, 2021)
Executive Order on the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (January 27, 2021)
Executive Order on Tackling the Climate Crisis at Home and Abroad (January 27, 2021)
Executive Order on Reforming Our Incarceration System to Eliminate the Use of Privately Operated Criminal Detention Facilities (January 26, 2021)
Executive Order on Ensuring the Future Is Made in All of America by All of America’s Workers (January 25, 2021)
Executive Order on Enabling All Qualified Americans to Serve Their Country in Uniform (January 25, 2021)
Executive Order on Protecting the Federal Workforce (January 22, 2021)
Executive Order on Economic Relief Related to the COVID-19 Pandemic (January 22, 2021)
Executive Order on Establishing the COVID-19 Pandemic Testing Board and Ensuring a Sustainable Public Health Workforce for COVID-19 and Other Biological Threats (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Protecting Worker Health and Safety (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Supporting the Reopening and Continuing Operation of Schools and Early Childhood Education Providers (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Ensuring an Equitable Pandemic Response and Recovery (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on a Sustainable Public Health Supply Chain (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Ensuring a Data-Driven Response to COVID-19 and Future High-Consequence Public Health Threat (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Improving and Expanding Access to Care and Treatments for COVID-19 (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Promoting COVID-19 Safety in Domestic and International Travel (January 21, 2021)
Executive Order on Ethics Commitments by Executive Branch Personnel (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Protecting Public Health and the Environment and Restoring Science to Tackle the Climate Crisis (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Ensuring a Lawful and Accurate Enumeration and Apportionment Pursuant to the Decennial Census (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Revocation of Certain Executive Orders Concerning Federal Regulation (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on the Revision of Civil Immigration Enforcement Policies and Priorities (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Organizing and Mobilizing the United States Government to Provide a Unified and Effective Response to Combat COVID-19 and to Provide United States Leadership on Global Health and Security (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order on Protecting the Federal Workforce and Requiring Mask-Wearing (January 20, 2021)
Executive Order On Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through the Federal Government (January 20, 2021)

Thanks.

This really does instill a tad bit of hope for me. No really!

Some of these EOs have awesome names too.

My favorite is, "Executive Order on Ensuring the People of East Palestine Are Protected Now and in the Future"

cuz, man, good to know Biden has so much concern for the protection of the people of Palestine.

not to mention that, as DCHawk1 has told us, Palestine isn't even a real place anyway.

[jfish26]

It is simply true that you have more or less adopted each of the major pillars of his case for making war on Ukraine.

To wit:

“Russia is seeking peace” [in your last post, you talk about "when Putin tried to engage us about it diplomatically, [we told] him to pound sand"]
“Russia has a moral obligation to do something about security in the region” [in many posts, you accept Russia as being at least partly justified in making war on Ukraine]
“Ukraine is aggressive” (including attempts to associate Ukraine with terrorism, Nazis, and weapons of mass destruction) [you have supported Russia's association of Ukraine with Nazis and defense contracting firms]
“The West is creating tensions in the region” [see, among many other things, your quoted post]
“Ukraine is a puppet of the West” [see, among many other things, your quoted post]

You might not like it. I wouldn't, either. But if you cannot see that you are pretty much falling in line behind Putin here, you are simply choosing not to see it.

you've brought this up several times, so let's break each point down, one by one:

“Russia is seeking peace”

This sounds Orwellian. Russia is seeking peace so they declare war? Yeah right.

But, as far as diplomacy goes, there have been reports published, and shared here, that Putin tried to engage the West diplomatically about the Ukraine situation. The West, particularly Biden, not only told Putin to shove that diplomacy up his ass. The water also shunned the one western leader, Emmanuel "The Human Macaron" Macron, who DID think diplomacy was worth a try. It's almost like the West WANTED Putin to escalate war in Ukraine. Almost like they provoked him, just like the Obama administration said would happen. You are simply choosing not to see it.

But heck, "seeking peace," though bullshit rhetoric, is still better bullshit rhetoric than "...for no matter how long it takes." At least Putin is willing to say "peace" out loud, right?


“Russia has a moral obligation to do something about security in the region”


this is the same shit any country would say if the security in the region (militancy on their doorstep) became an issue. It gets back to the US's long-standing policy of "do as I say not as I do" global militancy. You are simply choosing not to see it. If Russia tried the same thing on us, we would, and DID, do the exact same shit - and likely with even less thought given to diplomacy.

ohh, and btw, and AGAIN, I've never said Russia is justified about shit. That's you, AGAIN, putting words in my mouth.


“Ukraine is aggressive” (including attempts to associate Ukraine with terrorism, Nazis, and weapons of mass destruction)


Ukraine IS aggressive. You are simply choosing not to see it.

There's been some sort of civil war, guerrilla fighting, "if brown folks were doing this we would call it terrorism" going on there for years now, particularly since that coup that...well...somebody staged. I'm not saying the US DID do it, but I'm saying that the coup, despite further destabilizing Ukraine, somehow also made Ukraine a safe enough place for none other than the Joe Bidens of the world to suddenly start holding political pep rallies there, and for U.S. corporations to treat the place as yet another investment opportunity. You are simply choosing not to see it.

And, yes, there are nazis in Ukraine! I think Putin pointing to is it more bullshit Putin rhetoric to help him try and justify his bullshit invasion. But, that doesn't change the fact Ukraine very much has a far right, Uber-nationalist, ethno-militant presence there, up to and including this critical mass of concerning nostalgia for Nazi fucking Germany. Yes, THAT Nazi fucking Germany. (even though we all know Putin is literally Hitler anyway)

Remember that time NATO tweeted a photo of a Ukrainian fighter with a Sonnenrad on her uniform? Remember those times (plural) Zelensky posted social media pics of himself surrounded by his security detail of Ukrainian soldiers wearing nazi insignia? Remember that time a Ukrainian general posted a pic of himself wearing swastika jewelry? Remember that time DCHawk1 posted a pic of a Ukrainian tank decked out in Third Reich symbols? Remember that time the New York Times wrote an article like," yes Ukraine really is full of nazis, and we've been intentionally misleading about that to make Ukraine appear otherwise"? Remember when each of those things was shared here?

Of course you don't. Because you are simply choosing not to see it.

oh, and WMDs, lol. That's not me puppeting Putin. That's Putin puppeting the United States.


“The West is creating tensions in the region”


this feels gross to say, and it is no doubt going to blow your western-propaganda-poisoned mind, but, I agree with Putin here. The West IS, and for decades HAS BEEN, creating tensions in the region. Ever hear of NATO expansion? Ever hear of Project Aerodynamic? Heck, ever hear of the Cold War?

You are simply choosing not to see it.


“Ukraine is a puppet of the West”


Let's go for devil's advocate downer pity on this one. What if Ukraine IS a puppet of the West? What if "the West" cares about the people of Ukraine about as much as they care about the people of Afghanistan or the people of Iraq or the people of Vietnam? Which is to say, what if the West doesn't give one flying fuck about the people of Ukraine? (come on bro, don't act like you had any concern for Ukraine, at all, until the Western war rhetoric suddenly convinced you to.)

(I know I know, "this is nothing like the other wars!" Okay, please demonstrate that. It's been suggested, but to date, I don't recall anyone actually trying to distinguish the purported differences, even after I identified so many similarities between Ukraine and those other wars...wait, nm, I guess the other day someone said it's different because at least it's minimal US lives on the line. Cuz who cares about Ukrainian lives? Oh.)

The point is, I think "the West" is interested in Ukraine less for the liberation of the people of Ukraine, and more using Ukraine as a pawn for things like - as you yourself have championed! - creating MIC economic windfalls, and weakening Russia, and sending a signal to China, and global energy markets (for real could you imagine how pissed we'd be if it really was Russia who blew up an international gas pipeline instead of our Ukraine puppets doing it?), and oil, oil, oil! (Halliburton lulz), and various other "free market capitalist" investment opportunities (gee I wonder why Zelensky's been meeting with Blackrock).

overall, and as much as it pains me to say it, and this is in no way an endorsement of Putin, but I think Putin's talking points here make a tad more sense on some objective global level than the "Ukraine good Russia bad, this is a simple battle between good and evil, no matter how long it takes! We really do care about the Ukrainian people, it's so totally different than the other wars!" And somehow, despite the US war machine's credibility otherwise being at least a little compromised of late, the western hawks just can't get enough of it.

But in a sense, any war against Russia may be an easier sell than war against places like Iraq and Afghanistan - even with the WMDs rhetoric, even with the "but they're harboring bin Laden" rhetoric. It's cuz we've all been conditioned by imperial Cold War rhetoric for our entire fucking lives to hate Russia unconditionally, no matter how rotten "the West" is acting ourselves.

You are simply choosing not to see it.

If you don't believe me, consider that when I asked over and over, "why do we think the "WMDs In Iraq" dipshits are suddenly playing us so straight about Ukraine?", no one could even attempt to answer but you, and your only answer was, "but Russia is a boogeyman!" Which, of course, is your perception formed overwhelmingly by the dipshit rhetoric.

You are simply choosing not to see it.

now, quick! Tell me something like, I'm overcomplicating a a complex geopolitical issue that's actually quite simple, but don't bother articulating why!

cuz, of course a complex issue can appear simple, when you are simply choosing not to see it.

“At least Putin is willing to say "peace" out loud, right?”

This, from your post, is pretty much my point about the path you’ve taken here.

[ousdahl]

come on bro, could you imagine if fucking Biden might be willing to say "peace" out loud?!

Maybe it would help toward some end to the conflict in Ukraine!

Heck, maybe it would even help toward some end to the conflict in Palestine!

...I mean Israel, heh heh.

so, let's try for another angle here, and since I at least am grateful that our nation's brand of Freedom and Democracy™ permits us to do so:

can you think of any criticism you might offer of the ongoing U.S. militancy across the world right now?

Any at all?

[jfish26]

come on bro, could you imagine if fucking Biden might be willing to say "peace" out loud?!

Maybe it would help toward some end to the conflict in Ukraine!

Heck, maybe it would even help toward some end to the conflict in Palestine!

...I mean Israel, heh heh.

so, let's try for another angle here, and since I at least am grateful that our nation's brand of Freedom and Democracy™ permits us to do so:

can you think of any criticism you might offer of the ongoing U.S. militancy across the world right now?

Any at all?

But what you seem to have ZERO interest in processing, let alone acknowledging, is that what Putin openly MEANS by "peace" is "victory."

Victory, by Ukraine's surrender, in a war that Putin brought illegally, unilaterally and without any ACTUAL provocation that would have merited even a show-of-force buildup, let alone proxy attacks on military targets, let alone direct attacks on military targets, let alone a two year military campaign against civilian targets.

In fact, you go so far the OTHER way as to openly criticize Ukraine, the United States and the rest of the West for resisting Ukraine's surrender "as long as it takes."

And you can SAY "fuck Putin" and so on, and you can SAY WMDs this and Bush that and Halliburton the other thing, yada yada yada - but this bizarre insistence on siding with Putin on the most basic aspect of all of this just undercuts the value of everything else you have to say on the broader topic.

It's disqualifying.

So, no, I will NOT validate your category error by hand-waving it away in order to have a discussion on the many, many things we do wrong in international military affairs.