Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:57 pm Lobster you are an odd crustacean sometimes.

What did I do? I just thinking out loud. I'm pretty depressed about this year's team.

You’re great.
Just sometimes say odd things.
Don’t ever change.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Buq5ahDA4Ok/?

kubandalum wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:25 pm

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:31 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:18 pm I don't need Vonte as a distributor -- I have BIFM.
I need an off the ball shooter and it's a plus that he's also a better defender.
Hence Chalmers.

If that's your basis for picking that position, I'd take Rush over both of them.

Self's best teams had 2 guys who could distribute. Chalmers/Robinson/Collins. Collins/Taylor.
Mason/Graham.

Would you include Taylor/Johnson in that list?

I would include them to further the point Self likes to play with 2 guys who are able to handle and distribute. I wouldn't include them towards the top of the list of his best teams. I've often said that, in terms of ranking teams, 2012 is way overrated just because they got to a Final Four/National Championship.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:05 pm

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:59 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:53 pm Rush is better suited at the 3 in college.
He's slower than Chalmers and couldn't dribble.
I like him off the bench to fill roles.

He played the 3, but I wouldn't really say he was better suited for one of the other. If you had a guy like Jackson at the 3, Rush would be a fantastic option at the 2. Not to mention the length that team would have defensively.

Rush can’t dribble.

This was in response to him saying he just wants a 2 who stands and hits spot up 3s and plays defense.

They are in the middle for me.
Behind 08, 10, 11 and 16.
Debatable with our last 2 teams ( 17, 18 ).

After the Davidson loss, Kansas went 20-3 in conference play including the conference tourney ( 16-2 in conference ). It was the 2nd best conference in the nation ( kenpom ). So they were still a very good team.

But I agree I wouldn't put Elijah/Taylor up in that elite guard tandem/combo.

does Tyshawn not get bonus points for romps on the Fieldhouse floor?

Agree that Taylor/Johnson wasn’t among the best tandem guard combo, but as for being among the best teams, they peaked late, but when they did, Wow!

If we're discussing Ty and Lodge not being one of the best guard tandems in the last 15 years, then holy cow, what an embarrassment of riches.

Who is clearly above? Frank/Graham, Chalmers/Robinson, Taylor/Collins.

Maybe a wash with Graham/March Malik, but I don't think you can drop the 12 backcourt below 5th.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:23 am what an embarrassment of riches

This is one thing about KU b-ball we should all giggle about and enjoy.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:23 am If we're discussing Ty and Lodge not being one of the best guard tandems in the last 15 years, then holy cow, what an embarrassment of riches.

Who is clearly above? Frank/Graham, Chalmers/Robinson, Taylor/Collins.

Maybe a wash with Graham/March Malik, but I don't think you can drop the 12 backcourt below 5th.

1. Frank/Graham - 2 years
2. Chalmers/Robinson/Collins - 2/3 years
3. Miles/Langford (I know, not a PG, but he still had the ball a lot and could create) - 2 years
4. Collins/Taylor - 2 years

15 years seems like a lot, but it's not like there was 15 different tandems. 5th would be closer to the bottom of the list.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:40 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:23 am If we're discussing Ty and Lodge not being one of the best guard tandems in the last 15 years, then holy cow, what an embarrassment of riches.

Who is clearly above? Frank/Graham, Chalmers/Robinson, Taylor/Collins.

Maybe a wash with Graham/March Malik, but I don't think you can drop the 12 backcourt below 5th.

1. Frank/Graham - 2 years
2. Chalmers/Robinson/Collins - 2/3 years
3. Miles/Langford (I know, not a PG, but he still had the ball a lot and could create) - 2 years
4. Collins/Taylor - 2 years

15 years seems like a lot, but it's not like there was 15 different tandems. 5th would be closer to the bottom of the list.

Fair point, and I was trying to go through that in my head about how long some of these tandems lasted.

And I'd disagree on Miles/Langford just because of how bad Langford's attitude and health was in his senior year. But again, what a freaking wealth of riches if Taylor/Johnson is even in the middle.

Especially later in the year, Elijah was a really good off-guard. Go watch the Ohio State final four if you need a refresher.

Elijah’s legacy (in many fan’s minds, apparently) as a really good off-guard was offset by the fact he went on to be a mediocre pg.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:40 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:23 am If we're discussing Ty and Lodge not being one of the best guard tandems in the last 15 years, then holy cow, what an embarrassment of riches.

Who is clearly above? Frank/Graham, Chalmers/Robinson, Taylor/Collins.

Maybe a wash with Graham/March Malik, but I don't think you can drop the 12 backcourt below 5th.

1. Frank/Graham - 2 years
2. Chalmers/Robinson/Collins - 2/3 years
3. Miles/Langford (I know, not a PG, but he still had the ball a lot and could create) - 2 years
4. Collins/Taylor - 2 years

15 years seems like a lot, but it's not like there was 15 different tandems. 5th would be closer to the bottom of the list.

Yeah, but then you have to look at it year by year, because while Mason/Graham in '17 was better than Johnson/Taylor in '12 a good argument can be made that Johnson and Taylor in '12 was a better backcourt than Mason/Graham in '16

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:46 am Especially later in the year, Elijah was a really good off-guard. Go watch the Ohio State final four if you need a refresher.

Elijah’s legacy (in many fan’s minds, apparently) as a really good off-guard was offset by the fact he went on to be a mediocre pg.

He was huge in the purdue game too.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:47 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:40 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:23 am If we're discussing Ty and Lodge not being one of the best guard tandems in the last 15 years, then holy cow, what an embarrassment of riches.

Who is clearly above? Frank/Graham, Chalmers/Robinson, Taylor/Collins.

Maybe a wash with Graham/March Malik, but I don't think you can drop the 12 backcourt below 5th.

1. Frank/Graham - 2 years
2. Chalmers/Robinson/Collins - 2/3 years
3. Miles/Langford (I know, not a PG, but he still had the ball a lot and could create) - 2 years
4. Collins/Taylor - 2 years

15 years seems like a lot, but it's not like there was 15 different tandems. 5th would be closer to the bottom of the list.

Yeah, but then you have to look at it year by year, because while Mason/Graham in '17 was better than Johnson/Taylor in '12 a good argument can be made that Johnson and Taylor in '12 was a better backcourt than Mason/Graham in '16

Yeah, '12 backcourt was better than '16 backcourt, just like it was better than '06 and '07 backcourt.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:43 am And I'd disagree on Miles/Langford just because of how bad Langford's attitude and health was in his senior year.

Some posters think it's naughty to be mean to Roi, but this is the thing that will always chap my ass, the way he encouraged KL and others to be unhappy.

Prick.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:03 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:43 am And I'd disagree on Miles/Langford just because of how bad Langford's attitude and health was in his senior year.

Some posters think it's naughty to be mean to Roi, but this is the thing that will always chap my ass, the way he encouraged KL and others to be unhappy.

Prick.

The stories of CB McGrath, Ryan Robertson and others calling former KU players to encourage them to root for Roy over KU in 2008 have always left a bad taste in my mouth about Roy.

Roy was beyond pissed at Lew Perkins at the time--made the infamous Jayhawk sticker that much more improbable. But, Roy was always about getting attention for Roy.

Johnson Taylor might have been a better backcourt than Mason/Graham 16 but it's close.
Ty better than junior Mason, for sure, but that was closer then we think because of assist/turnover.
And sophomore Vonte was better than junior Elijah.

16 were better 3 point shooters, rebounders and were far better at not turning the ball over.
Ty ty turned the ball over almost as often as he provided assists.
And both Mason and Vonte landed on the 1st team All B12 defense that year.