Israel/Palestine

[KUTradition]

so, hamas could theoretically get something like 20 days of reprieve if they slow play hostage release per the current agreement

what happens during this time?

[Shirley]

so, hamas could theoretically get something like 20 days of reprieve if they slow play hostage release per the current agreement

what happens during this time?

Hamas will rearm as much as it can and plot the next attack. Because, that's what they do.


Doctrine of Hamas

October 19, 2023
Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel. Hamas distanced itself from the longstanding Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)—an umbrella organization for disparate Palestinian factions that ranged from Marxist to secular nationalists—by propagating resistance in the religious context of jihad, or a holy struggle and martyrdom. “Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes,” Hamas said in its first statement in the late 1980s. Predominantly Shiite Iran has armed, trained and funded Hamas since the late 1980s largely due to its opposition to Israel and Islamic ideology.

Hamas is an Arabic acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement. It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” it decreed. Hamas also rejected any prospect of peace or coexistence with the state of Israel. “Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.”

[...]

[jfish26]

Which is illustrative of the core problem here: whatever you want to call them (ceasefires, pauses, whatever), these things win short-term, fixed/known small gains at the cost of medium- and long-term, unknown (but certain) larger losses.

Nobody disputes that saving hostages is, in and of itself, a good thing.

But, one can easily see how insidious, bad-faith “peaceniks” can have a lot of power to sway things against Israel’s (and the rest of the west’s) long-term interests.

[Shirley]

Which is illustrative of the core problem here: whatever you want to call them (ceasefires, pauses, whatever), these things win short-term, fixed/known small gains at the cost of medium- and long-term, unknown (but certain) larger losses.

Nobody disputes that saving hostages is, in and of itself, a good thing.

But, one can easily see how insidious, bad-faith “peaceniks” can have a lot of power to sway things against Israel’s (and the rest of the west’s) long-term interests.

^^^

And when you're a member of the relatively small group* that's being pursued by a much, much larger group, many of whose members are dedicated to your slaughter; and your tribe's history includes being pursued for millennia by many of the other world's tribes too, resulting in the death of ~ at least 6 million of your members in the not so distant past, not having an attitude about that could easily be interpreted as an inappropriate response, i.e., denial.


*Jews = ~ 15.2 million people. 15.2 million/ 8 billon people in the world = 0.2% of the world's population. Islam = 1.8 billion people, = nearly 24% of the world's population. 15.2 million Jews/1.8 billion Muslims = 0.0084 Jews for each Muslim. And, according to the PEW Research Center, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

[jfish26]

Which is illustrative of the core problem here: whatever you want to call them (ceasefires, pauses, whatever), these things win short-term, fixed/known small gains at the cost of medium- and long-term, unknown (but certain) larger losses.

Nobody disputes that saving hostages is, in and of itself, a good thing.

But, one can easily see how insidious, bad-faith “peaceniks” can have a lot of power to sway things against Israel’s (and the rest of the west’s) long-term interests.

^^^

And when you're a member of the relatively small group* that's being pursued by a much, much larger group, many of whose members are dedicated to your slaughter; and your tribe's history includes being pursued for millennia by many of the other world's tribes too, resulting in the death of ~ at least 6 million of your members in the not so distant past, not having an attitude about that could easily be interpreted as an inappropriate response, i.e., denial.


*Jews = ~ 15.2 million people. 15.2 million/ 8 billon people in the world = 0.2% of the world's population. Islam = 1.8 billion people, = nearly 24% of the world's population. 15.2 million Jews/1.8 billion Muslims = 0.0084 Jews for each Muslim. And, according to the PEW Research Center, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

And this is why it’s at least understandable - which isn’t the same thing as right - for Israel to perceive the Hamas attack as the literal tip of the spear of a movement that could end with the extermination of Israel and the Jewish way of life.

[Shirley]

^^^

[dolomite]

Hamas is pretty much in charge and they’re enjoying playing with Israeli emotions. It’s maddening and I don’t know what Israel should do except whatever Hamas demands.

[Shirley]

Good!

Police arrested a 48-year-old man in connection with Saturday night’s shooting of three U.S. students of Palestinian descent, as the FBI began an investigation and pressure grew to focus on the possibility of a hate motive...

Mitchell Minute 1733-The Shooting in Vermont

[Shirley]

The truce between Israel and Hamas is being extended.

Thanks, Joe.

[MICHHAWK]

does this mean we can slow down with the "aid packages." and aid our own for a change?

[KUTradition]

how socialist of you

[Shirley]

It looks like one of the Palestinian students shot in Burlington, Vt for no reason this weekend, will never walk again.

So proud to be an American.

[dolomite]

so, hamas could theoretically get something like 20 days of reprieve if they slow play hostage release per the current agreement

what happens during this time?

I was wondering that also. No shooting, bombing allowed correct? So can the IDF just casually stroll around Gaza and look for tunnel entrances? How about a soccer game between the two sides as like what happened in WWI with the Germans and Americans.

[ousdahl]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/worl ... gence.html

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

[Shirley]

I was listening to a podcast about financial markets when someone, who is not Jewish, lamented the misuse of the words "apartheid" and "ethnic cleansing", when people refer to how Israel treats Arabs/Palestinians. To them, it's a double standard and thinly veiled antisemitism, as well as a sign of ignorance. I found the statistics they quoted rather sobering.

Apartheid: Segregation or discrimination on the basis of race.

Of the world's ~ 8 billion people, Jews = ~ 15.2 million, or 0.2% of the world's population

According to the United Nations:

# of Jews in the following countries when Israel was created in 1948, and now:

Syria in 1948: 40,000 Now: 0
Iran in 1948: 100,000 Now: 8,500
Morocco in 1948: 265,000 Now: 2,100
Algeria in 1948: 140,000 Now: 200
Tunisia in 1948: 105,000 Now: 1,000

Arabs in Gaza in 1948: 85,000 Now: 2 million

Israel currently has 2.1 million Arabs living in the country, who serve on the Supreme Court, own businesses, and are elected to the Knesset.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

There was a big "march" in Chicago yesterday. I looked at a Tweet/X in regards to it and there were a lot of comments/replies. My take away from the comments/replies....
A. Seems the majority of the people wrote the comments/replies (and who were "marching") didn't really know what they were "marching" about. "Free" Palestine? "Stop apartheid"? "pro Palestine"? "anti-Israel"? "pro-Hamas"?
B. The tweet was from a local news station. ABC 7 Chicago. They are "un-biased" so it's not as if it was from a "pro-Palestine" or a "pro-Israel" source.
C. One person commented - "Israel is DONE". I started to respond but thought better of it. I was about to say, last I checked - Israel is still in existence. After all these years, still here. As of October 7th, 15,000 Gazans and as many buildings are "DONE". Why? Because assholes like you exist in the world. If you didn't, it would have never have happened.

https://twitter.com/ABC7Chicago/status/ ... 7464735801

[Shirley]

December 3, 2023-Isreal has resumed bombing Gaza, but it is more clear than ever the Israeli government has no strategy for winnning the war or reaching some kind of peace. The only strategic goal they seem to be pursuing is keeping the corrupt, incompetent and murderous Prime Minister in power

Mitchell Minute 1739-Israel Resumes Bombing Gaza

[MICHHAWK]

if we’re lucky. the middle east will blow its self off the earth.

[KUTradition]

many would same the same of the US

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

if we’re lucky. the middle east will blow its self off the earth.

The unfortunate thing is there are people who actually feel that way - and fail to care and/or comprehend the repercussions of that happening.