Top 25 polls

[CrimsonNBlue]

I think Bruce gets one more year to try and right the ship. Too much money lost and they'll call this year a throwaway.

[NewtonHawk11]

I don't see how he does. He had 2 good years to start with Frank's guys. Then .500 for a few years. Then got lucky with Wade, Brown and Sneed and made an Elite 8, now an awful year last year and an even more horrendous year this year.

Even the times he's made the tournament, it's been one and done for all of them except for that Elite 8 run. That's horrendous.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yes, certainly not defending his recent performance.

They're just hurting for $ and there is at least a small contingent that do not believe they can go out and buy better than Bruce right now.

[pdub]

it pains me to say this, but ksu won the big 12 only a couple years ago, which some of us here don't care about ( I certainly do ) but ksubb fans def do.

[Deleted User 863]

Who are they going to get that is definitively better than Weber? KState is not a destination coaching position. He provides stability and a few good teams per decade. That is about as good as they can hope for imo.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Who are they going to get that is definitively better than Weber? KState is not a destination coaching position. He provides stability and a few good teams per decade. That is about as good as they can hope for imo.

I definitely can understand this.

I also do think there are some good young coaches out there that would come in for $1-2m. Bruce's coaching style is getting left in the dust. You just can't win scoring in the 50's anymore.

[NDballer13]

How many "destination positions" are there? And how often are they available? How many coaches accepted a head coaching job at some place not considered a destination, but ended up making it one? Would Chris Beard have said Texas Tech was a destination job 5 years ago? Right now, I'd say it would take a pretty good package to get him out of there. What about Few or K when they were hired?

Sure, K-State probably isn't at the top of the list for many coaches if they are asked their one dream job, but it sure is hell would be higher than a place like Bowling Green.

[Cascadia]

Who are they going to get that is definitively better than Weber? KState is not a destination coaching position. He provides stability and a few good teams per decade. That is about as good as they can hope for imo.

I definitely can understand this.

I also do think there are some good young coaches out there that would come in for $1-2m. Bruce's coaching style is getting left in the dust. You just can't win scoring in the 50's anymore.

[pdub]

I'm with CnB, I think he gets another year.
I personally hope he gets 10 more.

[Cascadia]

I'm with CnB, I think he gets another year.
I personally hope he gets 10 more.

LIFETIME CONTRACT!!!!!

[Deleted User 863]

Who are they going to get that is definitively better than Weber? KState is not a destination coaching position. He provides stability and a few good teams per decade. That is about as good as they can hope for imo.

I definitely can understand this.

I also do think there are some good young coaches out there that would come in for $1-2m. Bruce's coaching style is getting left in the dust. You just can't win scoring in the 50's anymore.

You definitely can't win in the 50s. You also can't win with crappy players. So it is hard to say whether he wants to score in the 50s or if that's a result of players not being very good. When he has had good players he's done decently well (relative to KState expectations).

Even in that scenario where they get a good young coach, those coaches would probably come in for maybe a max of 2 or 3 years before a better destination plucks them away (assuming they do well, which is probably optimistic for any coach at KState).

[Deleted User 863]

Sure, K-State probably isn't at the top of the list for many coaches if they are asked their one dream job, but it sure is hell would be higher than a place like Bowling Green.

Yes, but how many coaches at places like Bowling Green are truly better than Bruce Weber? Not many.

If it is just to get a fresh face for a program then go for it, but Bruce Weber is a better coach than most small school unknown coaches. He's been employed for a long time for a reason. Replacing him with something better isn't as easy as it seems, just ask the Fighting Illini how it worked out for them. They hired a young small school coach and he was worse than Weber. Took them a decade to turn it around to something decent by finding Underwood...and i am still not totally sold on him as being a top 10-15 coach in the country.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Who are they going to get that is definitively better than Weber? KState is not a destination coaching position. He provides stability and a few good teams per decade. That is about as good as they can hope for imo.

I definitely can understand this.

I also do think there are some good young coaches out there that would come in for $1-2m. Bruce's coaching style is getting left in the dust. You just can't win scoring in the 50's anymore.

You definitely can't win in the 50s. You also can't win with crappy players. So it is hard to say whether he wants to score in the 50s or if that's a result of players not being very good. When he has had good players he's done decently well (relative to KState expectations).

Even in that scenario where they get a good young coach, those coaches would probably come in for maybe a max of 2 or 3 years before a better destination plucks them away (assuming they do well, which is probably optimistic for any coach at KState).

He's had some of his better recruiting classes as of late. A ton of transfers out have been an issue. The program is getting stale.

What he has done in the past starts to matter less and less if you don't think he can do it again. Coaches get fired for that scenario a lot. Stability can be bad. It's a hard job, but dead last in the league 2-3 seasons in a row shouldn't be happening when he's about a decade in.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Sure, K-State probably isn't at the top of the list for many coaches if they are asked their one dream job, but it sure is hell would be higher than a place like Bowling Green.

Yes, but how many coaches at places like Bowling Green are truly better than Bruce Weber? Not many.

If it is just to get a fresh face for a program then go for it, but Bruce Weber is a better coach than most small school unknown coaches. He's been employed for a long time for a reason. Replacing him with something better isn't as easy as it seems, just ask the Fighting Illini how it worked out for them. They hired a young small school coach and he was worse than Weber. Took them a decade to turn it around to something decent by finding Underwood...and i am still not totally sold on him as being a top 10-15 coach in the country.

None of that makes Bruce Weber a good Power 5 basketball coach going forward.

[Deleted User 863]

Then they should get a fresh face. I get it.

...but they'll still be 1 of the 3 worst teams in the league every single year. It doesn't matter who their coach is. Their program isn't stale solely because of Weber. It is Manhattan Kansas. Doesn't get much more stale than that.

[NDballer13]

Sure, K-State probably isn't at the top of the list for many coaches if they are asked their one dream job, but it sure is hell would be higher than a place like Bowling Green.

Yes, but how many coaches at places like Bowling Green are truly better than Bruce Weber? Not many.

If it is just to get a fresh face for a program then go for it, but Bruce Weber is a better coach than most small school unknown coaches. He's been employed for a long time for a reason. Replacing him with something better isn't as easy as it seems, just ask the Fighting Illini how it worked out for them. They hired a young small school coach and he was worse than Weber. Took them a decade to turn it around to something decent by finding Underwood...and i am still not totally sold on him as being a top 10-15 coach in the country.

I'm not saying they are better, but why do you seem so sure they are worse? Is it a coincidence that Weber's best season at Illinois was coaching a team Self built? His teams consistently got worse every year, outside of one decent season where they finished T2 in the conference and got bounced in the first round. Sounds a lot like his tenure at KSU. Best season was with a team Frank Martin built, then declined every year since, except for one good season.

How confident are you that Weber is a better coach than a guy like Darian DeVries? And thats just head coaches. If its just small school, unknown guys you're worried about, how about assistants? Would you rather have Weber run your team to the bottom of your conference, or hire a young assistant like Jon Scheyer, Kim English, or Gerry McNamara if he were interested to try and build something?

[Deleted User 863]

Sure i would rather have the guys you mentioned, but none of those guys would take the KState job more than likely.

I don't think Weber is really doing a "bad" job at KState (by KState standards). He wins about 60% of his games. He has won a conference title twice in the last 8 years. That's pretty good for a place like that.

He is getting sort of old though so he may retire in the next few years anyway.

[TDub]

Sure, K-State probably isn't at the top of the list for many coaches if they are asked their one dream job, but it sure is hell would be higher than a place like Bowling Green.

Yes, but how many coaches at places like Bowling Green are truly better than Bruce Weber? Not many.

If it is just to get a fresh face for a program then go for it, but Bruce Weber is a better coach than most small school unknown coaches. He's been employed for a long time for a reason. Replacing him with something better isn't as easy as it seems, just ask the Fighting Illini how it worked out for them. They hired a young small school coach and he was worse than Weber. Took them a decade to turn it around to something decent by finding Underwood...and i am still not totally sold on him as being a top 10-15 coach in the country.

I'm not saying they are better, but why do you seem so sure they are worse? Is it a coincidence that Weber's best season at Illinois was coaching a team Self built? His teams consistently got worse every year, outside of one decent season where they finished T2 in the conference and got bounced in the first round. Sounds a lot like his tenure at KSU. Best season was with a team Frank Martin built, then declined every year since, except for one good season.

How confident are you that Weber is a better coach than a guy like Darian DeVries? And thats just head coaches. If its just small school, unknown guys you're worried about, how about assistants? Would you rather have Weber run your team to the bottom of your conference, or hire a young assistant like Jon Scheyer, Kim English, or Gerry McNamara if he were interested to try and build something?

Could you have picked 3 worse names if you tried? Christ. A dukie, mizzou...not only a mizzou but Kim damn English, and goddamn McnaFuckingmara? Are you trying to get my blood pressure up? Ha

[NDballer13]

Sure i would rather have the guys you mentioned, but none of those guys would take the KState job more than likely.

I don't think Weber is really doing a "bad" job at KState (by KState standards). He wins about 60% of his games. He has won a conference title twice in the last 8 years. That's pretty good for a place like that.

He is getting sort of old though so he may retire in the next few years anyway.

Coaches all over the place get fired for better than most of Bruce Weber's seasons. Power 5 team that has made it to the second round of the tourney 1 time in 8 seasons. How many schools hang on to that coach saying "that's pretty good". Rick Barnes had a career full of good/great seasons at Texas and still got run out of town because he wasn't winning enough.

Self was at Oral Roberts. Jay Wright was at Hofstra. Already mentioned Beard at Little Rock. Hell, your boy Bruce Weber started at Southern Illinois. Wonder how their careers would be had ADs always used the theory that there's no way a small school coach could be better than the one we have now.

[Deleted User 863]

The guys you mentioned above (Self Weber Wright) all had NCAA tournament success and/or experience at those smaller schools and all left for places far superior to KState.

I definitely didn't say a small school coach couldn't be good becuase many/most good coaches start at smaller schools as their first head coaching gig. I just think at a place like KState you either a) can't get those guys you mentioned or b) get them and they leave after 2 years to go to a better place than KState....as a young up and comer if you go to a place like KState and flop (which is highly likely) then you can end up worse off than before.

Texas isn't KState so the Rick Barnes situation doesn't translate (for me). KState has 2 conference titles and an elite 8 in Webers time there. If they expect better than that then they're delusional.