COVID-19 - On the Ground

[Geezer]

But he's losing money.
Have you seen Mich's 401K?

[dolomite]

where do you think they got the idea?

I read probably ten articles online about chloroquine, hydrochloroquine, and the azithromycin combinations that same day. Since I don’t watch the news, I heard nothing about it from the POTUS. It was all over CNN, Wall Street Journal, and Newsweek online, just to name the ones that readily come to mind. It was not Fox News and DJT going off the rails.

He was trying to give people hope and calm their panic. If people are too dumb to do some basic research on their own, use common sense, or better yet, call their physician and ask about it, then there’s not much the POTUS can do.

If his base was made up of people that researched the claims made by Donald Trump then Hillary Clinton would be President.

And we wouldn’t be dealing with the Corona virus.
I blame Trump for everything.
(Just trolling)

[DCHawk1]

These people...

https://twitter.com/said_mitch/status/1 ... 0418246657

[Geezer]

Over 5000 new cases so far today.

[PhDhawk]

It's perfectly fair to be critical of Trump for overstating the use of chloroquinone as a treatment for the virus. Hell, Fauci tempered his statements at that very press conference. No doubt Trump is foolish for almost describing it as a cure.

But...it's silly to blame him for these people poisoning themselves. He wasn't advocating for people to self-medicate or using it as a preventative. He, to my knowledge, didn't tell anyone to consume aquarium cleaner that contained it.

If they had started trials using chloroquinone and not mentioned it in a press conference he'd be getting grilled for not being transparent enough.

[Deleted User 307]

If they had started trials using chloroquinone and not mentioned it in a press conference he'd be getting grilled for not being transparent enough.

"We implore everyone to continue to do their part, and practice social distancing when possible. If you don't have to leave the house, don't. Everyone doing their part will keep you and your loved ones out of the hospitals, and will allow our esteemed health care professionals to treat those who have already been infected.

If you must go out to work, such as those determined essential workers helping keep us fed, and keeping the world moving as much as possible, we thank you. Please remember to wash your hands, keep a safe distance whenever possible, and don't touch your face.

There have been rumors that certain drugs may help alleviate or lessen the symptoms of the COVID-19 virus. Please, do not self-medicate, or take any prescription or chemical without first consulting your doctors, as these are currently only rumors and have not been tested by the FDA. We are going to trials this week to evaluate these claims."

He didn't need to call out the substance by name, and could've easily been vague about everything, and temper expectations. People keep talking about how his supporters shouldn't be so dumb. I'm saying, he is president because his supporters are that dumb.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-b ... ont-525281

[HouseDivided]

...The man's wife told NBC News she'd watched televised briefings during which President Trump talked about the potential benefits of chloroquine. Even though no drugs are approved to prevent or treat COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, some early research suggests it may be useful as a therapy.

"We were afraid of getting sick."

The name "chloroquine" resonated with the man's wife, who asked that her name not be used to protect the family's privacy. She'd used it previously to treat her koi fish.

"I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, 'Hey, isn't that the stuff they're talking about on TV?'"

The couple — both in their 60s and potentially at higher risk for complications of the virus — decided to mix a small amount of the substance with a liquid and drink it as a way to prevent the coronavirus.

"We were afraid of getting sick," she said.

Within 20 minutes, both became extremely ill, at first feeling "dizzy and hot."

"I started vomiting," the woman told NBC News. "My husband started developing respiratory problems and wanted to hold my hand."

She called 911. The emergency responders "were asking a lot of questions" about what they'd consumed. "I was having a hard time talking, falling down."

Shortly after he arrived at the hospital, her husband died.

So, it is the President’s fault that two grown adults were dumb enough to ingest koi pond cleaner from a container that no doubt clearly said that it was NOT for human consumption? DJT has not done a great job with the pandemic, but some of the things people are trying to pin on him seriously stretch the limits of credulity.

Honestly, yes, it is. The country is full of scared, worried, uninformed people and when you give them ignorant I formation and treat it as if it is valid information, you shouldn't be surprised when people treat it is valid information. This is why our President needs to STFU because he has no actual valid information that would help people.

Again, you are purposely (I assume) missing the point because you want another reason to blame DJT. There is plenty of promising data out there showing that chloroquine and hydrocholoroquine/zithromycin treatment significantly cuts the duration and severity of the illness. If someone extrapolates from that statement that they need to drink koi pond cleaner, then that is their own fault. It is sad, but it is not DJT's responsibility, no matter how much you would like it to be so.

[HouseDivided]

If they had started trials using chloroquinone and not mentioned it in a press conference he'd be getting grilled for not being transparent enough.

"We implore everyone to continue to do their part, and practice social distancing when possible. If you don't have to leave the house, don't. Everyone doing their part will keep you and your loved ones out of the hospitals, and will allow our esteemed health care professionals to treat those who have already been infected.

If you must go out to work, such as those determined essential workers helping keep us fed, and keeping the world moving as much as possible, we thank you. Please remember to wash your hands, keep a safe distance whenever possible, and don't touch your face.

There have been rumors that certain drugs may help alleviate or lessen the symptoms of the COVID-19 virus. Please, do not self-medicate, or take any prescription or chemical without first consulting your doctors, as these are currently only rumors and have not been tested by the FDA. We are going to trials this week to evaluate these claims."

He didn't need to call out the substance by name, and could've easily been vague about everything, and temper expectations. People keep talking about how his supporters shouldn't be so dumb. I'm saying, he is president because his supporters are that dumb.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-b ... ont-525281

There are multiple journal articles coming out of China, South Korea, and Japan that show promise for the treatments. The FDA bureaucracy will slow it down to where we will be the last country to get anything done. He was calling the drugs by name to put pressure on the FDA to hurry the f*#ck up rather than plodding along as a political middle finger to him. It'd be great if everybody could set politics aside and focus on getting the ship of State righted, but I know that's probably too much to ask.

[DCHawk1]

My favorite part of these arguments is the belief -- most prominent in twocoach, but widely present -- that they're the smarties, and the everyone else is a dumdum.

Twocoach doesn't live in Omaha. He lives in Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.

But the rest of us can't be trusted with fish tank cleaner. cUz TRumP!

[Deleted User 307]

My favorite part of these arguments is the belief -- most prominent in twocoach, but widely present -- that they're the smarties, and the everyone else is a dumdum.

Twocoach doesn't live in Omaha. He lives in Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.

But the rest of us can't be trusted with fish tank cleaner. cUz TRumP!

[japhy]

If they had started trials using chloroquinone and not mentioned it in a press conference he'd be getting grilled for not being transparent enough.

"We implore everyone to continue to do their part, and practice social distancing when possible. If you don't have to leave the house, don't. Everyone doing their part will keep you and your loved ones out of the hospitals, and will allow our esteemed health care professionals to treat those who have already been infected.

If you must go out to work, such as those determined essential workers helping keep us fed, and keeping the world moving as much as possible, we thank you. Please remember to wash your hands, keep a safe distance whenever possible, and don't touch your face.

There have been rumors that certain drugs may help alleviate or lessen the symptoms of the COVID-19 virus. Please, do not self-medicate, or take any prescription or chemical without first consulting your doctors, as these are currently only rumors and have not been tested by the FDA. We are going to trials this week to evaluate these claims."

He didn't need to call out the substance by name, and could've easily been vague about everything, and temper expectations. People keep talking about how his supporters shouldn't be so dumb. I'm saying, he is president because his supporters are that dumb.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-b ... ont-525281

There are multiple journal articles coming out of China, South Korea, and Japan that show promise for the treatments. The FDA bureaucracy will slow it down to where we will be the last country to get anything done. He was calling the drugs by name to put pressure on the FDA to hurry the f*#ck up rather than plodding along as a political middle finger to him. It'd be great if everybody could set politics aside and focus on getting the ship of State righted, but I know that's probably too much to ask.

Yes, of course, these dead people were reading Chinese, Korean and Japanese medical Journals and our healthcare professionals here in US are dangerously cautious. Makes sense.

[Deleted User 89]

DC wagging his finger at people wagging their fingers

[Deleted User 89]

does psych know what an anecdote, or anecdotal evidence is?

[Geezer]

copied from a chemist on Phog

You know I decided to dig a bit:

From https://www.drugs.com/pro/chloroquine.html:

Chloroquine
Generic Name: Chloroquine phosphate
Dosage Form: tablet

So if you pay attention to the generic name of the drug, guess what the active ingredient is? Yup what they got from the fish tank tablet. A bit more digging showed me:

https://humble.fish/chloroquine-phosphate/

How To Buy – Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is an antimalarial drug for humans which also treats external parasites that afflict marine fish (and possibly freshwater fish as well.) However, there are a few challenges to overcome with CP. The very first is obtaining it because a prescription is usually required to buy pharmaceutical-grade CP. While pharmaceutical-grade is not an absolute requirement, the closer the medication is to being 99% pure the more effective it is. Many CP failures can be traced back to buying the medication on eBay or from some other unknown source. The best strategy for obtaining CP is to ask your local veterinarian for a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy: https://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/chloroquine/
A backup plan is to buy from this source, which has tested 94-96% pure for me (although I cannot guarantee every batch from this source will test the same): https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/ite ... -phosphate
Sometimes CP is dispensed in tablet form instead of powder. The tablets are fine to use, but the downside is you get less “chloroquine base” out of them so you must dose more.

So while you are technically correct in regards to them not OD'ing from the pharmaceutical drug, they did get nailed by the active ingredient in said drug.

[Deleted User 307]

copied from a chemist on Phog

You know I decided to dig a bit:

From https://www.drugs.com/pro/chloroquine.html:

Chloroquine
Generic Name: Chloroquine phosphate
Dosage Form: tablet

So if you pay attention to the generic name of the drug, guess what the active ingredient is? Yup what they got from the fish tank tablet. A bit more digging showed me:

https://humble.fish/chloroquine-phosphate/

How To Buy – Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is an antimalarial drug for humans which also treats external parasites that afflict marine fish (and possibly freshwater fish as well.) However, there are a few challenges to overcome with CP. The very first is obtaining it because a prescription is usually required to buy pharmaceutical-grade CP. While pharmaceutical-grade is not an absolute requirement, the closer the medication is to being 99% pure the more effective it is. Many CP failures can be traced back to buying the medication on eBay or from some other unknown source. The best strategy for obtaining CP is to ask your local veterinarian for a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy: https://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/chloroquine/
A backup plan is to buy from this source, which has tested 94-96% pure for me (although I cannot guarantee every batch from this source will test the same): https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/ite ... -phosphate
Sometimes CP is dispensed in tablet form instead of powder. The tablets are fine to use, but the downside is you get less “chloroquine base” out of them so you must dose more.

So while you are technically correct in regards to them not OD'ing from the pharmaceutical drug, they did get nailed by the active ingredient in said drug.

I'm confused, is this "chemist" explaining how to dose fish, or dose people. Seems dangerous to be giving links how how to buy regardless.

[zsn]

does psych know what an anecdote, or anecdotal evidence is?

Or the processes and procedures for how the FDA approves medications for their intended use? For starters he does not know that most drugs are approved in the US first because the FDA is the easiest regulatory body to convince (for the most part). When the FDA doesn't approve there is usually a good reason and politics isn't even one of the top-50 reasons.

I would encourage everyone to read the history of thalidomide - especially since Psych et al are worried about the welfare of the unborn.

[twocoach]

It's perfectly fair to be critical of Trump for overstating the use of chloroquinone as a treatment for the virus. Hell, Fauci tempered his statements at that very press conference. No doubt Trump is foolish for almost describing it as a cure.

But...it's silly to blame him for these people poisoning themselves. He wasn't advocating for people to self-medicate or using it as a preventative. He, to my knowledge, didn't tell anyone to consume aquarium cleaner that contained it.

If they had started trials using chloroquinone and not mentioned it in a press conference he'd be getting grilled for not being transparent enough.

"The experts in the field are testing an array of options to see if any are viable".

Done. Then no one feels the need to drink aquarium cleaner and no one can bitch about him not being transparent.

[japhy]

So while you are technically correct in regards to them not OD'ing from the pharmaceutical drug, they did get nailed by the active ingredient in said drug.

You forgot to mention that they probably did this just to make trump look bad.

The same reason the FDA does slow studies.

Why does everyone hate trump so? Is it because he is God's Chosen One?

Treating him as badly as the heathens treated the Jeebus, except worser, because they crucify trump daily, over and over, like a scene from Groundhog Day.

[twocoach]

copied from a chemist on Phog

You know I decided to dig a bit:

From https://www.drugs.com/pro/chloroquine.html:

Chloroquine
Generic Name: Chloroquine phosphate
Dosage Form: tablet

So if you pay attention to the generic name of the drug, guess what the active ingredient is? Yup what they got from the fish tank tablet. A bit more digging showed me:

https://humble.fish/chloroquine-phosphate/

How To Buy – Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is an antimalarial drug for humans which also treats external parasites that afflict marine fish (and possibly freshwater fish as well.) However, there are a few challenges to overcome with CP. The very first is obtaining it because a prescription is usually required to buy pharmaceutical-grade CP. While pharmaceutical-grade is not an absolute requirement, the closer the medication is to being 99% pure the more effective it is. Many CP failures can be traced back to buying the medication on eBay or from some other unknown source. The best strategy for obtaining CP is to ask your local veterinarian for a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy: https://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/chloroquine/
A backup plan is to buy from this source, which has tested 94-96% pure for me (although I cannot guarantee every batch from this source will test the same): https://store.nationalfishpharm.com/ite ... -phosphate
Sometimes CP is dispensed in tablet form instead of powder. The tablets are fine to use, but the downside is you get less “chloroquine base” out of them so you must dose more.

So while you are technically correct in regards to them not OD'ing from the pharmaceutical drug, they did get nailed by the active ingredient in said drug.

WTF are you doing?

[HouseDivided]

does psych know what an anecdote, or anecdotal evidence is?

Psych does, thank you.
Psych is also aware that this is a highly-fluid situation wherein anecdotal solutions can become widespread solutions relatively quickly.
Psych is neither characterizing the drugs in question as a panacea nor is he suggesting that scientific protocols be circumvented.
Psych is hoping that there will be a sense of urgency in conducting larger human trials among people who, in reality, have nothing to lose.
Psych also hopes that people will take responsibility for themselves before assuming that, since Clorox contains bleach, they should drink drain cleaner or toilet cleaner or eat wet wipes to sanitize their innards, and then blaming the CDC for suggesting that they frequently sanitize surfaces to protect themselves from infection.
Psych thanks you for your time and consideration and wishes you a healthy afternoon.