Kansas Crimson

It's a Trump judge that probably gets overturned on appeal, like it has elsewhere. Too many procedural issues.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:32 am oh good lord. everybody but the dopey 20 somethings with their hand out. knew that was going nowhere.

Still can’t answer, can you? Can you point to ONE accomplishment by the Republicans in the last 30 years? Can you point to ONE policy position they ran on in this election which is supposed to be helpful?

It’s ok for Lockheed, Northrop and Halliburton to get handouts, according to the Republicans.

I mean, do democrats *really* do that much more tho?

do they really raise much fuss about Lockheed, Northrop and Halliburton getting handouts?

Or do they mostly go along with it too?

At least the Dems are attempting to do something. In most cases they have just been blocked by the Republicans.

Oh, and I expected the above from Illy….not from you! “Both sides…….”

zsn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:16 am At least the Dems are attempting to do something.

are they really.

ha!

I don't mean to "both sides" that one, so much as point out a bigger issue yet - that in our two-party system, both parties still serve the interests of capital more so than actually doing much to help out normal people.

lulz?

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/sta ... lPYo19yUcg

zsn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:20 am The Republicans know to do just one thing: stop the government from helping people. They fought tooth and nail the providing of affordable health insurance. They are now fighting this.

Have they proposed any alternatives in terms of viable legislative proposals? Absolutely not. They rushed to give rich people and corporations tax cuts (not budget neutral!). However, they have controlled at least one chamber, sometimes both and done nothing.

The Republican Party has perfected the avoidance of doing anything useful for the people. As I’ve said before, they have zero legislative accomplishments (other than the Patriot Act and tax cuts) in the last 30 years.

Many things I disagree with here.
First, labeling the tax cuts as just helping the rich is just rhetoric and dishonest. It lowered taxes for middle class as well. The only people it didn't lower taxes for were either those who don't pay taxes, or people in the top 2-5% of wage earners who have expensive houses and property taxes.

Also to say those, which went through Congress, were "rushed through" in the context of huge spending (student loan relief) that didn't go through Congress at all is pretty ridiculous.

Next, to say Republicans aren't doing anything about it - that's Democracy in action. Their constituents don't think this is something the federal government should be doing anything about, so yes, they're actively trying to do nothing, which represents their constituency.

I'm no fan of the tax cuts and you can see in my posting history that I think cutting taxes in the midst of a strong economy is criminal. I think not nearly enough has been said about how that helped contribute to inflation. But at least they went through the Democratic process.

Not a fan of handouts, but we need to be consistent if people never had to pay back their PPP loans. Never put your faith in the courts as we've seen over the last two years.

My taxes certainly went up, mainly due to the limitations on State and Local Tax deductions. It was not offset by the marginal rate reduction. Be that as it may, my points generally stand. Point to significant Republican legislative accomplishments, especially when they have had majorities, in the past 30 years. Oh wait, I forgot the entrenchment of a theocratic super majority in the SCOTUS.

If I understand your position it’s more about the process? Yes, I agree that it would have been better to get it through Congress. However, how do you get anything done when one half wouldn’t support ANYTHING, just on principle?? They even voted against inclusion of their own proposals!!

zsn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:43 pm My taxes certainly went up, mainly due to the limitations on State and Local Tax deductions. It was not offset by the marginal rate reduction. Be that as it may, my points generally stand. Point to significant Republican legislative accomplishments, especially when they have had majorities, in the past 30 years. Oh wait, I forgot the entrenchment of a theocratic super majority in the SCOTUS.

If I understand your position it’s more about the process? Yes, I agree that it would have been better to get it through Congress. However, how do you get anything done when one half wouldn’t support ANYTHING, just on principle?? They even voted against inclusion of their own proposals!!

Yeah, your taxes (and mine) went up because we live in expensive areas with high property taxes and home prices. But the point stands that most middle class people got their taxes reduced.

Yes, my main concern is about process. Unchecked power that you (not specifically zsn) want when your side is in power will bite you in the ass when the other side is in power.

As a non-liberal, the fact that it's hard for Government to pass anything is a feature, not a bug.

StayCurious wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:36 am Not a fan of handouts, but we need to be consistent if people never had to pay back their PPP loans. Never put your faith in the courts as we've seen over the last two years.

how come there's so much more pushback about individual student loan forgiveness, than the PPP loan forgiveness?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:54 pm

StayCurious wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:36 am Not a fan of handouts, but we need to be consistent if people never had to pay back their PPP loans. Never put your faith in the courts as we've seen over the last two years.

how come there's so much more pushback about individual student loan forgiveness, than the PPP loan forgiveness?

Do you know what PPP loans were for? Do you know what qualifies a PPP loan to have a portion of the balance forgiven?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:54 pm how come there's so much more pushback about individual student loan forgiveness, than the PPP loan forgiveness?

Most likely because there's far more students in crushing debt and they want to keep them in that position. Being in debt helps politicians and those who are dependent upon that debt as their asset. I agree that we should be more critical of all those who took out those ppp loans. A few of them have been charged with fraud, but not enough.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:56 pm Do you know what qualifies a PPP loan to have a portion of the balance forgiven?

Being a politician?

zsn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:14 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:56 pm Do you know what qualifies a PPP loan to have a portion of the balance forgiven?

Being a politician?

I wasn't aware that was one of the requirements.

PPP loans were well intentioned. The forgivable part was well intentioned.

Is there fraud/abuse? Sure, but it's rare. Just like there is some abuse of other government assistance.

One of the banks I work for/with did hundreds of PPP loans. The vast majority of those balances were not forgiven. And the vast majority were to small businesses, not rich politicians or wealthy people abusing them or committing fraud to have portions of balances forgiven that didn't qualify legally.

it's been a long time. were the student loans ever worded in this way?:

if used as prescribed, you will not have to pay this back

I dont think there should be any loan forgiveness. Why should people who didn't take out loans have to pay for it? You chose to take out a loan. Nobody forced you to. Figure out a way to pay it back


What we could do that actually makes sense moving forward is get education costs down. College prices has inflated more than anything over the past few decades

Let me rephrase my comment: being a politician with a high loan balance, and being against smaller loan balances for low-income students being forgiven is what qualifies for PPP being being forgiven.

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:39 pm I dont think there should be any loan forgiveness. Why should people who didn't take out loans have to pay for it? You chose to take out a loan. Nobody forced you to. Figure out a way to pay it back
What we could do that actually makes sense moving forward is get education costs down. College prices has inflated more than anything over the past few decades

Can't say I disagree in principle. But the problem is, we bail out banks and people who knew they were not going to pay back their ppp loans. The other major issue is that college is backed by government loans. Take that away and the price will come back to normal.