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Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:14 pm
by jfish26
randylahey wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm Everything that's happened with the political persecution of Donald Trump has exposed to the world that the US political system is rotten to the core.

It's third world shit we should have never allowed to happen

And everyone can clearly see it, except for democrat voters, blinded by their own political bias
I’m still waiting for you to tell us more about the libertarian utopia that is Milei’s Argentina.

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:17 pm
by Sparko
Trump is being persecuted for committing crimes. Like treason. Aaron Burr looks angelic in comparison.

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:26 pm
by KUTradition
randylahey wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm Everything that's happened with the political persecution of Donald Trump has exposed to the world that the US political system is rotten to the core.

It's third world shit we should have never allowed to happen

And everyone can clearly see it, except for democrat voters, blinded by their own political bias
project much?

commit crimes, face the consequences

toddlers understand as much

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:26 pm
by jhawks99
jfish26 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:14 pm
randylahey wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm Everything that's happened with the political persecution of Donald Trump has exposed to the world that the US political system is rotten to the core.

It's third world shit we should have never allowed to happen

And everyone can clearly see it, except for democrat voters, blinded by their own political bias
I’m still waiting for you to tell us more about the libertarian utopia that is Milei’s Argentina.
Did he ever explain the 1st amendment?

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:40 pm
by jfish26
jhawks99 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:26 pm
jfish26 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:14 pm
randylahey wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm Everything that's happened with the political persecution of Donald Trump has exposed to the world that the US political system is rotten to the core.

It's third world shit we should have never allowed to happen

And everyone can clearly see it, except for democrat voters, blinded by their own political bias
I’m still waiting for you to tell us more about the libertarian utopia that is Milei’s Argentina.
Did he ever explain the 1st amendment?
No.

But, speaking of, here is a note-perfect explanation (bold/underline mine) of what he and others get wrong.

Substack’s response to Substackers against Nazis sucks

https://cupofcoffee.substack.com/p/subs ... ubstackers
Last week I signed on to an open letter directed to Substack’s management seeking answers to questions many are raising about the company’s platforming and monetizing of Nazis. Today one of Substack’s founders, and the person who has essentially been the platform’s public face, Hamish McKenzie, posted a response. To say it was disappointing is a massive understatement. McKenzie:
Hi everyone. Chris, Jairaj, and I wanted to let you know that we’ve heard and have been listening to all the views being expressed about how Substack should think about the presence of fringe voices on the platform (and particularly, in this case, Nazi views).

I just want to make it clear that we don’t like Nazis either—we wish no-one held those views. But some people do hold those and other extreme views. Given that, we don't think that censorship (including through demonetizing publications) makes the problem go away—in fact, it makes it worse.

We believe that supporting individual rights and civil liberties while subjecting ideas to open discourse is the best way to strip bad ideas of their power. We are committed to upholding and protecting freedom of expression, even when it hurts.
He goes on but you get the idea. Needless to say, I think this is a shitty response.

There is no “protecting freedom of expression” issue here. Substack is not the government. Substack is a private business and it’s free to decide who and what it does and does not wish to platform without imperiling anyone’s rights. Indeed, it already does so with newsletters written by sex workers. That’s their choice. So too is this.

Deciding not to platform Nazis, white supremacists and the like would not be censorship. It would simply be a business deciding not serve and profit from Nazis, white supremacists and the like. In contrast, deciding to publish them and, going further, arguing that doing so is virtuous, is a pretty clear signal that you simply don’t understand the threat posed by Nazism, white supremacy and the like and you’re ignorant of the strategies they pursue to advance their agenda. Or that you do know it and you simply don’t care because your 10% cut of their revenues is just as good as the 10% they get from me and other writers who publish on Substack.

Again, this is not a matter of anyone’s legal rights and to the extent anyone claims it is is lying to you. It is, however, a matter of the sorts of folks with whom one chooses to associate. Both on Substack’s part and on the part of those who publish on this platform. Substack has now spoken. Now it’s time for the rest of us to speak.


For me, it seems pretty simple.

If I frequented a bar and noticed that Nazis and extremists started showing up and then, in response to customer complaints, the bar’s owner said “I don't like Nazis either, but they like beer too,” I'd start going to another bar. Changing where I publish this newsletter is not something I can do as quickly as walking out of a bar, but it’s something I can do. Unlike a lot of Substackers, this newsletter is my full time job and sole source of income. It pays my mortgage, puts food on my table, and pays my kids’ college tuition. As such, it may take some time for me to leave Substack as, to do so, it I have to research alternatives and determine whether or not they will work for me.

But it’s gonna happen sooner rather than later. Substack has made it pretty clear what it stands for. And it’s nothing I can stand with.

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:49 pm
by DeletedUser
How do you guys do this all day?

Sheesh. Serious dedication to the cause.

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:41 pm
by jhawks99
DeletedUser wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:49 pm How do you guys do this all day?

Sheesh. Serious dedication to the cause.
This is Illy, right? "I can't shut up about anything" Illy?

Re: 2024

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:06 pm
by Overlander
jhawks99 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:41 pm
DeletedUser wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:49 pm How do you guys do this all day?

Sheesh. Serious dedication to the cause.
This is Illy, right? "I can't shut up about anything" Illy?
Exactly. This new Illy is different though.





For now

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:56 am
by ousdahl
You mean the illy that won’t stop quoting me even in threads that I quit?

Not so sure he’s any different…

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:58 am
by ousdahl
And go figure NOW we’re worried about Nazis.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:59 am
by DeletedUser
Starting early today I see.

Don't you work?

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:11 am
by ousdahl
aaaaand as for this poll!
I suppose it shows just how much variability there is in polling - that the economist can find respondents that deviate so much from the NYT respondents.

I still am nervous that Biden’s narrow lead here overall is not something to bet the farm on. And, while I still can appreciate the sentiment of going all in (again) on Biden for no other reason than avoiding Trump, I also think it’s not wise to disregard Biden’s record from the last 4 years, either - or to think in a team sport way; that Biden is better just cuz he’s a dem

Regardless, our nation and the world at large deserves better than to have to pick from one of two kooky geriatric hawks.

It’s like having to pick between ass cancer and ball cancer. There is no better choice, cuz either way you got cancer!

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:18 am
by RainbowsandUnicorns
ousdahl wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:11 am aaaaand as for this poll!
I suppose it shows just how much variability there is in polling - that the economist can find respondents that deviate so much from the NYT respondents.

I still am nervous that Biden’s narrow lead here overall is not something to bet the farm on. And, while I still can appreciate the sentiment of going all in (again) on Biden for no other reason than avoiding Trump, I also think it’s not wise to disregard Biden’s record from the last 4 years, either - or to think in a team sport way; that Biden is better just cuz he’s a dem

Regardless, our nation and the world at large deserves better than to have to pick from one of two kooky geriatric hawks.

It’s like having to pick between ass cancer and ball cancer. There is no better choice, cuz either way you got cancer!
You and I may feel we deserve better. Our country doesn't deserve better. WE allowed this to happen.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:20 am
by DeletedUser
ousdahl wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:11 am It’s like having to pick between ass cancer and ball cancer. There is no better choice, cuz either way you got cancer!
Statistically speaking, I think "ball cancer" is the better choice.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:48 am
by ousdahl
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:18 am

You and I may feel we deserve better. Our country doesn't deserve better. WE allowed this to happen.
Good post gutter! In a big way, I can’t disagree.

It sucks that anyone who DOES try to offer anything better is given the Joe McCarthy treatment.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am
by twocoach
randylahey wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm Everything that's happened with the political persecution of Donald Trump has exposed to the world that the US political system is rotten to the core.

It's third world shit we should have never allowed to happen

And everyone can clearly see it, except for democrat voters, blinded by their own political bias
Political persecution? Trump's actual politics isn't much different than any number of other GOP politicians. What he is being persecuted for is breaking the law.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:02 am
by twocoach
ousdahl wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:48 am
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:18 am

You and I may feel we deserve better. Our country doesn't deserve better. WE allowed this to happen.
Good post gutter! In a big way, I can’t disagree.

It sucks that anyone who DOES try to offer anything better is given the Joe McCarthy treatment.
So many in this country whine about their options and then confirm them in the primaries. It's ridiculous. We do this to ourselves.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:08 am
by jfish26
twocoach wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:02 am
ousdahl wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:48 am
RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:18 am

You and I may feel we deserve better. Our country doesn't deserve better. WE allowed this to happen.
Good post gutter! In a big way, I can’t disagree.

It sucks that anyone who DOES try to offer anything better is given the Joe McCarthy treatment.
So many in this country whine about their options and then confirm them in the primaries. It's ridiculous. We do this to ourselves.
Ranked-choice voting would help.

And, honestly, the RNC should probably IMMEDIATELY work with states to try to implement that for the upcoming primaries. So that R voters can effectively call "provisional" on their Trump votes.

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:06 am
by jfish26
Seems as good a place as any. Hope you're sitting down.

GOP voter-fraud crackdown overwhelmingly targets minorities, Democrats

Black and Hispanic people made up more than 75 percent of defendants and Democrats nearly 60 percent in a controversial push by Republicans to prosecute election cheating, according to a first-of-its-kind analysis by The Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ions-2020/
As Donald Trump falsely claimed the 2020 presidential election was stolen from him, Republicans in some states launched special units to prosecute voter fraud as part of a high-profile and controversial push to stamp out cheating some claimed was rampant.

But the election integrity units established or expanded in six states after Trump’s loss obtained only 47 convictions during a period in which tens of millions of votes were cast, and the units overwhelmingly targeted minorities and Democrats for prosecution, according to a first-of-its-kind analysis by The Washington Post of nearly every prosecution.

The analysis found that 76 percent of defendants whose race or ethnicity could be identified were Black or Hispanic, while White people constituted 24 percent of those prosecuted by the units.

Registered Democrats made up 58 percent of those charged whose party could be identified, while registered Republicans were 23 percent. In the rest of the cases, the defendant was not registered with a particular party.

[...]

The analysis also showed that election integrity units have not uncovered the type of wide-ranging schemes claimed by Trump and some Republican allies that might tilt an election. Instead, the vast majority of the convictions represent small-bore cheating — or, as some defendants argue, mistakes — by individual voters, such as casting two ballots, falsifying a registration or voting even if barred by a conviction.

[...]

All of the convictions occurred in Florida, Texas and Ohio, while units in Virginia, Georgia and Arkansas failed to obtain a single guilty verdict, despite allocating dozens of staffers and millions of dollars to ferret out voter fraud.

[...]

Lorraine Minnite, a Rutgers University professor who has written a book on voter fraud, said she was unsurprised there have been so few convictions, since studies, election audits and reporting have consistently shown that voter fraud is rare.

An Associated Press review found fewer than 475 cases of potential voter fraud in six battleground states during the 2020 election. A Loyola University law professor found just 31 credible reports of voter impersonation nationwide between 2000 and 2014, a period in which more than a billion votes were cast.

“They did not have a record of fraud that they needed to go and create these investigative units,” Minnite said. “The fact that they have not produced evidence of fraud is support for their lack of necessity.”

[...]

Units in Georgia and Arkansas also have obtained no convictions. The Arkansas unit, which was created in March, has three potential cases it is investigating, while Georgia has one pending investigation, according to officials in both states. Georgia state police declined to comment on the unit’s activities.

The lack of activity has led some critics to question whether the funding for these units could be better spent elsewhere. Georgia has laid out about $580,000 on its unit, while officials in Virginia, Ohio and Arkansas said they could not break out the costs of their units because the attorneys involved handle other duties as well.

Paxton’s office spent nearly $6.7 million on its unit over the last three years and resolved 33 cases — roughly $203,000 a case, according to an analysis of state figures by The Washington Post. Florida’s unit has a budget of $1.2 million in fiscal year 2022-2023 and made 52 arrests, a cost of about $23,000 an arrest. Florida lawmakers boosted the unit’s budget to $1.4 million earlier this year.

Lawmakers in Texas and Florida have pushed to expand prosecutors’ ability to go after election crimes, while lawmakers in other states also are looking at creating their own election integrity units. Eliza Sweren-Becker, senior counsel for the voting rights program at the Brennan Center, said that is a worrying trend.

“This is a hammer in search of a nail,” Sweren-Becker said.
This is some highly-inefficient use of significant taxpayer dollars, from the supposed party of small government and fiscal responsibility.

And that's BEFORE you consider the taxpayer burdens of governments responding to frivolous challenges!

Re: 2024

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:18 am
by zsn
twocoach wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:00 am
randylahey wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:00 pm Everything that's happened with the political persecution of Donald Trump has exposed to the world that the US political system is rotten to the core.

It's third world shit we should have never allowed to happen

And everyone can clearly see it, except for democrat voters, blinded by their own political bias
Political persecution? Trump's actual politics isn't much different than any number of other GOP politicians. What he is being persecuted for is breaking the law.
Prosecuted. Not persecuted. He broke multiple laws. He’s facing multiple prosecutions.