Rupp Rafters Meltdown

[CrimsonNBlue]

I think it might be the greatest 5-year recruiting run of all time.


Let's also not forget that K says everyone else is just a "blip" and only he is doing this all cleanly. Maybe that's his excuse for not winning a damn thing. There's not a more hate-able program out there.

It's hard because of small sample sizes, and the vagaries of relative competition, etc., but I'd be very interested in a thoughtful study of the optimal roster balance (with reference to, say, RSCI and college minutes).

Being it's the college game and coaching and development just matter so much, it would be hard to come up with one. This is anecdotal, but it seems having experienced lead guards helps out quite a bit, so that would suggest guards more in the 15 to 75 range. Of course, there are exceptions.

Any coach, though, would tell you that having talent is better than not having talent and K just has no excuses for underperforming here. He also usually sprinkles in experience on his roster.

[jfish26]

I think it might be the greatest 5-year recruiting run of all time.


Let's also not forget that K says everyone else is just a "blip" and only he is doing this all cleanly. Maybe that's his excuse for not winning a damn thing. There's not a more hate-able program out there.

It's hard because of small sample sizes, and the vagaries of relative competition, etc., but I'd be very interested in a thoughtful study of the optimal roster balance (with reference to, say, RSCI and college minutes).

Being it's the college game and coaching and development just matter so much, it would be hard to come up with one. This is anecdotal, but it seems having experienced lead guards helps out quite a bit, so that would suggest guards more in the 15 to 75 range. Of course, there are exceptions.

Any coach, though, would tell you that having talent is better than not having talent and K just has no excuses for underperforming here. He also usually sprinkles in experience on his roster.

I would guess optimal looks something like our 2007-08 team.

Which, not surprising, given the KP profile and champ-of-all-one-seeds FF.

[CrimsonNBlue]

It seems Self built for 2008 specifically. 2004 was building block and then you land a monster 2005 class, and somehow replace the weakest link (Downs) with freaking Rush. 2006 class were the uber-talent cherry on top.

I do think, though, in 2020 you're not getting Arthur, Rush, and maybe even Sherron to stick around that long.

[ousdahl]

Rush didn’t stick around that long, until he blew out his knee.

Quite a silver lining to that one.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Yes, but even with a summer ACL tear, I don't know that Rush comes back in today's environment.

If you want to feel old, know that was 13 years ago. The same amount of time between Danny and the Miracles and KU getting their ass kicked by Bill Self and Illinois in 2001.

[ousdahl]

whoa dang.

yeah, today Rush probably wouldn't have even stuck around through Sophomore year, especially since he was like a 29 year old freshman either way.

[jfish26]

It seems Self built for 2008 specifically. 2004 was building block and then you land a monster 2005 class, and somehow replace the weakest link (Downs) with freaking Rush. 2006 class were the uber-talent cherry on top.

I do think, though, in 2020 you're not getting Arthur, Rush, and maybe even Sherron to stick around that long.

There was a McDonald's-and-future-AA who played mop-up minutes. Wowzers.

[Cascadia]

It seems Self built for 2008 specifically. 2004 was building block and then you land a monster 2005 class, and somehow replace the weakest link (Downs) with freaking Rush. 2006 class were the uber-talent cherry on top.

I do think, though, in 2020 you're not getting Arthur, Rush, and maybe even Sherron to stick around that long.

There was a McDonald's-and-future-AA who played mop-up minutes. Wowzers.

I was going to post something similar. I don't think you get an Aldrich to sign in 2020 with that many players ahead of him on the depth chart.

Game has changed so much in the last 10 years. Players don't want to be coached and they don't want to work for playing time. Some exceptions obviously, but AAU ball and the idiocy of NCAA/Amateurism is killing the college game.

[jfish26]

It seems Self built for 2008 specifically. 2004 was building block and then you land a monster 2005 class, and somehow replace the weakest link (Downs) with freaking Rush. 2006 class were the uber-talent cherry on top.

I do think, though, in 2020 you're not getting Arthur, Rush, and maybe even Sherron to stick around that long.

There was a McDonald's-and-future-AA who played mop-up minutes. Wowzers.

I was going to post something similar. I don't think you get an Aldrich to sign in 2020 with that many players ahead of him on the depth chart.

Game has changed so much in the last 10 years. Players don't want to be coached and they don't want to work for playing time. Some exceptions obviously, but AAU ball and the idiocy of NCAA/Amateurism is killing the college game.

I know, I know, but: if these guys could make something approaching two-way contract money while in college, they'd stay in college longer.

[Cascadia]

There was a McDonald's-and-future-AA who played mop-up minutes. Wowzers.

I was going to post something similar. I don't think you get an Aldrich to sign in 2020 with that many players ahead of him on the depth chart.

Game has changed so much in the last 10 years. Players don't want to be coached and they don't want to work for playing time. Some exceptions obviously, but AAU ball and the idiocy of NCAA/Amateurism is killing the college game.

I know, I know, but: if these guys could make something approaching two-way contract money while in college, they'd stay in college longer.

I totally agree. I think the NIL situation will drastically improve the quality of play in college basketball. It needs to be monitored and regulated to some degree. I don't like the idea of KU Boosters paying players $50K for a 1 hour autograph session at the local car wash, but this shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I don't like blanket blaming AAU because your mileage varies so much on that. The guys we get from the KC teams come in and are ready to play and be coached. Plus, they all play AAU ball.

But, along those same lines, the NBA has really adapted and the NCAA has not. There's just not much attracting a player away from the AAU to NBA route. The Balls deserve a lot of criticism, but if you're LaMelo Ball, why would you not make money while in high school/aau, play a year of pro ball elsewhere and get drafted the second you're eligible? College is offering nothing to so much of these guys.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I don't think you get an Aldrich to sign in 2020 with that many players ahead of him on the depth chart.

First, agree on it being a different time.

The Aldrich thing--he was committed before Shady had his "dream" and committed. Also probably figured Shady was going league after one year. I think we all did.

IIRC, Aldrich seemed similarly ranked to David McCormack.

[NewtonHawk11]

I honestly was so naïve that I believed the "dream" story back then. That bag was a big one for him, I'm sure.

[Cascadia]

I don't like blanket blaming AAU because your mileage varies so much on that. The guys we get from the KC teams come in and are ready to play and be coached. Plus, they all play AAU ball.

I think AAU and NBA are affecting the college game similarly in regards to freedom of movement. A kid can leave any AAU team and join another for any reason. I think this makes coaches less likely to try on teach or coach a kid and more likely to just try and keep him happy. Then that kid get to college and guys like Self are yelling at them all the time, they just want to run and quit. So, now college coaches are doing the similar things as AAU coaches. Just appease the kid so his feelings don't get hurt and he jumps to a new team.

And these kids now see how easy it is for NBA players to move to a new team anytime they want and they just don't get the college model.

There are exceptions, sure, but this is really in reference to the top 100-150 high school players every year. The ones that make up the highest quality of college basketball teams/games.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I don't like blanket blaming AAU because your mileage varies so much on that. The guys we get from the KC teams come in and are ready to play and be coached. Plus, they all play AAU ball.

I think AAU and NBA are affecting the college game similarly in regards to freedom of movement. A kid can leave any AAU team and join another for any reason. I think this makes coaches less likely to try on teach or coach a kid and more likely to just try and keep him happy. Then that kid get to college and guys like Self are yelling at them all the time, they just want to run and quit. So, now college coaches are doing the similar things as AAU coaches. Just appease the kid so his feelings don't get hurt and he jumps to a new team.

And these kids now see how easy it is for NBA players to move to a new team anytime they want and they just don't get the college model.

There are exceptions, sure, but this is really in reference to the top 100-150 high school players every year. The ones that make up the highest quality of college basketball teams/games.

Well again, your mileage varies, as all 12 of our guys were in the top 150 and all played AAU ball (some longer than others) and I don't get the sense that any of them are ready to run and quit.

But, what you are saying definitely makes sense. The downside of the change does not bother me enough, though. The balance of power has long needed to be shifted. Schools/teams have always been able to cut and run at any time. The long-term commitment needs to be an equal effort.

[ousdahl]

I honestly was so naïve that I believed the "dream" story back then. That bag was a big one for him, I'm sure.

I totally believe the dream story, word for word, when he said “last night I dreamt I was on the court in a Kansas uni, and Mario and BRush were out there with me, and these dudes in adidas gear were throwing brown paper bags onto the court while from the sidelines Coach screamed, “we good!”

Every word of that is believable bro.

[NewtonHawk11]

MAYB is where it's at bro.

[hartjack8]

Kentucky hiring scumbag Coach Cal just decimated the honesty in collage basketball.
Remember he got Rose to Memphis but a blueblood he got anyone he wanted.

Cal Wes and Nikes first #1 ranked class 2009

John Wall #2
DeMarcus Cousins #3
Daniel Orton #18
Jon Hood #56
Eric Bledsoe #68

2010 #1 ranked class

Brandon Knight #5
Enes Kanter #8
Terrence Jones #9
Doron Lamb #24

2011 #1 ranked class

Anthony Davis #1
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist #3
Marquis Teague #6
Kyle Wiltjer #20

2012 #1 ranked class

Nerlens Noel #1
Alex Poythress #7
Archie Goodwin #15
Willie Cauley-Stein #43

2013 #1 ranked class

Julius Randle #2
Andrew Harrison #5
Aaron Harrison #6
James Young #9
Dakari Johnson #10
Marcus Lee #18

2014 #2 ranked class The year Coach K woke up Duke #1

Karl-Anthony Towns #5
Trey Lyles #12
Tyler Ulis #19
Devin Booker #22

2015 #1 ranked class Duke #2

2016 #2 ranked class Duke #1

2017 #2 ranked class Duke #1

2018 #2 ranked class Duke #1

[Sparko]

I think the whole ranking system started to falter with the rise of the inert shooter era. Villanova had chuckers and bruisers who basically dared officials to call fouls every time and it worked. They had a formula that succeeded as long as the 30-footers dropped. UK had some dazzling dunks though.

[Sparko]

Louisville’s center mascot painting is a Cardinal bricking a dunk.