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Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 am
by Deleted User 75
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:35 am
Hollow.
Not useful.
That's not really what he was saying, but I think you know that.
This may be your form of therapy for last night, and that's okay for sure. I usually feel better after a loss after we get on here and talk about stuff and rant about what we are lacking.
To each their own.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:42 am
by jfish26
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 am
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:35 am
Hollow.
Not useful.
That's not really what he was saying, but I think you know that.
This may be your form of therapy for last night, and that's okay for sure. I usually feel better after a loss after we get on here and talk about stuff and rant about what we are lacking.
To each their own.
We need to be a bit sympathetic - it's got to be very hard to have twisted your way into having to defend Vick.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:50 am
by Deleted User 75
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:42 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 am
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:35 am
Hollow.
Not useful.
That's not really what he was saying, but I think you know that.
This may be your form of therapy for last night, and that's okay for sure. I usually feel better after a loss after we get on here and talk about stuff and rant about what we are lacking.
To each their own.
We need to be a bit sympathetic - it's got to be very hard to have twisted your way into having to defend Vick.
Ya. Something.
And I'm with him on the fact that Vick isn't having a bad year by any means compared to players of the past.....but I'm not going to go so far as to call him as good as players who played ahead of him every year and are clearly better at basketball than him.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:56 am
by pdub
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 am
I did not say that the shots have not been useful.
I said, in the context of whether I'd rather have Svi, that the way Vick gets his shots isn't useful (as compared with the way Svi got his shots). Vick doesn't bend the defense nearly the way Svi did, and we badly need the spacing.
This is wrong.
And it's odd coming from you.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 am
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:56 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 am
I did not say that the shots have not been useful.
I said, in the context of whether I'd rather have Svi, that the way Vick gets his shots isn't useful (as compared with the way Svi got his shots). Vick doesn't bend the defense nearly the way Svi did, and we badly need the spacing.
This is wrong.
And it's odd coming from you.
What's wrong? You think our spacing is good?
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:02 pm
by pdub
No.
It's not.
Not compared to last season.
But last season we had four very good three point shooters.
Defenses key on Vick. It was very evident in the Kentucky and Texas games.
You replace Vick with Svi we would have the same issues.
Svi doesn't bend the defense any differently - they both shoot deep threes ( hell, I think Vick actually does a better job of creating his own three pointer ).
Svi is a better fit in the NBA because of his height and his youth but he benefited from having a collection of some of the better perimeter shooters ( and distributors ) Self has had while at Kansas.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:04 pm
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:02 pm
No.
It's not.
Not compared to last season.
But last season we had four very good three point shooters.
Defenses key on Vick. It was very evident in the Kentucky and Texas games.
You replace Vick with Svi we would have the same issues.
Svi doesn't bend the defense any differently - they both shoot deep threes ( hell, I think Vick actually does a better job of creating his own three pointer ).
Svi is a better fit in the NBA because of his height and his youth but he benefited from having a collection of some of the better perimeter shooters ( and distributors ) Self has had while at Kansas.
I would have to have access to better tools than what I've got, but I'd wager a good amount of KanCrimCash that Svi's work rate far surpasses Vick's.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:12 pm
by pdub
Useage rates are nearly identical.
Svi leads by .3% points.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:20 pm
by jfish26
...that's not what I as referring to. I'm talking about what the player does off the ball.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:21 pm
by Mjl
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 am
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:56 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 am
I did not say that the shots have not been useful.
I said, in the context of whether I'd rather have Svi, that the way Vick gets his shots isn't useful (as compared with the way Svi got his shots). Vick doesn't bend the defense nearly the way Svi did, and we badly need the spacing.
This is wrong.
And it's odd coming from you.
What's wrong? You think our spacing is good?
Pdub is right, your assessment is pretty off here
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:24 pm
by pdub
I just don't think Svi would plop right in in place of Vick ( especially b/c I don't imagine Svi as a leader ) and change this team significantly.
Malik has a different skillset - I think we'd be better with him.
And obviously even better with Vonte.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:26 pm
by pdub
That said, Svi instead of Grimes?
Now we're talking.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:26 pm
by Deleted User 89
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:22 am
Playing a bigger role than he was EVER expected (or wanted) to play.
this is a joke, right?
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:31 pm
by Deleted User 75
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:26 pm
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:22 am
Playing a bigger role than he was EVER expected (or wanted) to play.
this is a joke, right?
You think Vick was brought here to be a senior leader and 2nd scoring option? LOL
I certainly don't.
He was brought here to be a role/rotation player. History shows that our 1st and 2nd options in typical years are far superior to Vick.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:32 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
If we need a guy to take step backs and bad guarded perimeter jump shots that somehow go in, I’ll take Vick.
Everything else involved with this game Svi is better at. Especially passing and not being a complete headcase (BBIQ, disappearance acts, effort, etc.)
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:33 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:31 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:26 pm
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:22 am
Playing a bigger role than he was EVER expected (or wanted) to play.
this is a joke, right?
You think Vick was brought here to be a senior leader and 2nd scoring option? LOL
I certainly don't.
He was brought here to be a role/rotation player. History shows that our 1st and 2nd options in typical years are far superior to Vick.
You continue to go back to this, but it doesn’t account for the most frustrating aspect of Vick: the complete 180 he’s done in THIS season.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:37 pm
by pdub
Svi 2.7 APG.
Vick 1.9 APG.
Better certainly but neither are distributors.
And Vick is hitting 2 pointers at 50%, Svi at 42%.
So he's only good at step backs and guarded perimeter jump shots I guess.
Much better than what Svi brought to the table ( and with Vonte and Malik helping with spacing ).
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:38 pm
by Deleted User 75
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:33 pm
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:31 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:26 pm
this is a joke, right?
You think Vick was brought here to be a senior leader and 2nd scoring option? LOL
I certainly don't.
He was brought here to be a role/rotation player. History shows that our 1st and 2nd options in typical years are far superior to Vick.
You continue to go back to this, but it doesn’t account for the most frustrating aspect of Vick: the complete 180 he’s done in THIS season.
Very true.
I think we got spoiled early on in the season when he was shooting above 60%. He was always going to come back to near his average.
The other aspect, is that for a guy like Vick, it's easy to stay the course when things are going good....but the second adversity hits a lot of guys regress back to what they truly are.
Self knew what he was getting in to....and that's why he was so hesitant to allow him back to KU.
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:40 pm
by jfish26
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:33 pm
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:31 pm
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:26 pm
this is a joke, right?
You think Vick was brought here to be a senior leader and 2nd scoring option? LOL
I certainly don't.
He was brought here to be a role/rotation player. History shows that our 1st and 2nd options in typical years are far superior to Vick.
You continue to go back to this, but it doesn’t account for the most frustrating aspect of Vick: the complete 180 he’s done in THIS season.
This season and every season, really, right? Isn't there a demonstrable pattern of Vick turtling in conference play?
Re: This Team
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:44 pm
by painter
Vick is closer to Brannen Greene than he is to SVI.
He's also appears to be making a run at the Bill's least favorite player award.