Bill Self

[ousdahl]

I dunno. Kinda depends on the shooter, right?

Cuz like I said, that extra two feet sure would be nice on many of Och’s shots. Heck, has he ever connected a single time from what could be called nba range?

Braun’s a little better at range tho, as long as he has 45 minutes to get his feet set.

[Deleted User 89]

i wonder how much of it is muscle memory

they get so used to shooting from the arc, that unless they actually practice shooting from further out, it is a bit of a “shock” to their stroke when they do

similarly, if distance was that much of a factor, wouldn’t we see higher percentages when shooting from the corners?

[NewtonHawk11]

i wonder how much of it is muscle memory

they get so used to shooting from the arc, that unless they actually practice shooting from further out, it is a bit of a “shock” to their stroke when they do

similarly, if distance was that much of a factor, wouldn’t we see higher percentages when shooting from the corners?

Self's favorite 3 are from the wing, like FT line extended and the corner. When you see plays set up for a 3 to be made, it's chop, which is the FT line extended and a back screen and shooter fades to corner for a 3. Think those 2 are physically the closest shots you can have from 3.

When I played, the FT line extended was money for me. Felt like it was the best sight line and felt closer than others. Hated the corners because there is little-to-no room for error.

[NewtonHawk11]

And by error, I mean if you miss a bit to the side on a wing 3, you still could get a lucky bounce off the rim, you miss a bit to the side from a corner 3 and it's hitting the backboard.

[NDballer13]

Good shooters miss short and long. If you're hitting the side of the backboard, you shouldn't be taking that shot anyway, lol.

[zsn]

The Bama shot chart has a glaring hole. Back several decades ago the most reliable not-close-range shot is basically a FT-jumper. Especially against the zone you enter to the center/forward at the FT line and have him distribute to the open positions. Every so often he would just turn around and shoot it to keep the defense honest. Easiest two points if the defense isn’t paying attention. It’s also available on almost every possession especially off a ball screen against a man defense.

[pdub]

Stats say otherwise and I imagine it has to do with ease of shot if hypothetically unguarded and then areas typically more easy to guard—the free throw line being one of them.

And a layup is easier than a free throw.
( insert DMac joke here )

[TDub]

Too many computers analyzing too many scenarios and too many coaches relying on computers "advanced metrics". And 1 Steph Curry.

Its like the computer saying you should go for 4th down pretty much every time. They ignore the human element.

My statement changes slightly if you get 4 pts for the longer shots...then they have some value .

[pdub]

Long game it pays off to ignore the human element.
In the moment, it may not.

[TDub]

Theres a lot of nuance (wheres lobster) that the computer cant account for within each situation

[pdub]

Certainly.
And there will be moments where you can't figure emotion into play.
But again, over a long span of time, which is what this Bama coach is factoring, it can help create a general game plan ( not necessarily an individual play but a system ).

[TDub]

Yea but its pretty dependent on a certain set of players.
I mean its not that different from what UNLV did 30 years ago. But its a high risk system. Youre going to lose some games you really shouldn't (and win some you shouldn't)...but does it actually increase your average win total?

[pdub]

I would argue yes.

[PhDhawk]

He's not relying on his guys hitting 40% from 30 feet. The benefit is, if they know you'll take that shot, and you're ANY kind of threat to hit it, they have to guard you. That makes it easier to penetrate, it makes it harder for them to double the post, it makes it easier for other guys to penetrate, etc.

It always matters whether you have 3 pt shooters that shoot 45% vs. 35% vs 25%...you always want good shooters. The point here is, if you have a 35% shooter from 23 feet, it's a good shot...it's also a good shot if he shoots 33% from 29 feet because even if there's a slight dip you make up for it with what you gain in spacing.

The other thing is, that by practicing shots out to 30 feet, you get used to them. At some point, for a lot of shooters, shooting an uncontested shot from 28 feet is better than a guarded shot right at the line.

[PhDhawk]

That said, I'd like to see their shot chart and how it changes against different defenses. I'm assuming the one shown was against man defense.

[pdub]

Yea but its pretty dependent on a certain set of players.
I mean its not that different from what UNLV did 30 years ago. But its a high risk system. Youre going to lose some games you really shouldn't (and win some you shouldn't)...but does it actually increase your average win total?

It is and isn't.
Of course you'll recruit guys who fit and do better when you get people who play in your system.
And if your team is made up of future NBA stars, you should do better as well ( oops Calipari! ).

But using analytics/metrics/data tracking can help guide you in the offseason to edit your sets - and during the season if things are working/or not working.

Bill Self uses I think Synergy tracking to help him make coaching decisions.

[Deleted User 89]

I would argue yes.

[Sparko]

With the 1/3 plus reward for beyond the arc, the question to me is only rebounding. If you are getting rebounds and defense has broken down. Why not shoot more 3s?

[pdub]

Because 2's are easier to shoot.
And are more conducive to get a team in foul trouble.

[Walrus]

I hope Self stays here for another 5 or 10 years, but I worry that we may be near the end of his time here. He's been here 17 years, right? That's a long time. No one else on the market that I would take over him.