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Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:49 am
by MICHHAWK
NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
Yes. If NCAA comes at Kansas, they better be prepared to go after Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Arizona, and many many many others.
I mean, Creighton even freaking got involved in this stuff. If that's not proof that everyone is doing it, I don't know what is..
Maybe that is coming down the line. I don't know. What we do know is that right now KANSAS is the poster boy. If you look at the score sheet for the here and now, it sure appears that the ncaa has enough to look at KANSAS.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 am
by PhDhawk
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:49 am
NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
Yes. If NCAA comes at Kansas, they better be prepared to go after Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Arizona, and many many many others.
I mean, Creighton even freaking got involved in this stuff. If that's not proof that everyone is doing it, I don't know what is..
Maybe that is coming down the line. I don't know. What we do know is that right now KANSAS is the poster boy. If you look at the score sheet for the here and now, it sure appears that the ncaa has enough to look at KANSAS.
Isn't this just the first of three trials? It looks bad right now, but KU might not be the poster boy when it's all said and done.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:59 am
by Kyblueblood
I don’t think the NCAA has the balls to go after Duke. They haven’t before with smoldering fire evidence. K is untouchable.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:03 am
by Deleted User 75
NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:06 am
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:41 am
The "I really don't care, this ain't no thang" crowd would be salivating and licking their chops and planning their funeral if the name KANSAS was substituted by duke or unc or khintuckey or whoever. But because it is KANSAS and HCBS this whole episode ain't no thang.
i think there are a lot that are in this boat...not all, but a lot
Yes. If NCAA comes at Kansas, they better be prepared to go after Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Arizona, and many many many others.
I mean, Creighton even freaking got involved in this stuff. If that's not proof that everyone is doing it, I don't know what is..
What're they going to go after UK Duke or UNC for? Those guys haven't had hard evidence presented implicating them as far as I know.... and remember the NCAA won't always have the FBI doing their digging for them. They can't investigate like the FBI....so if the FBI stuff doesn't directly implicate UK Duke or UNC then I'm not sure what they'd be going after them for.
Obviously they're (Nike schools) doing it too...but that's not the point. The NCAA has shown over the last 2 decades that they're not very good at catching and proving this stuff.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:04 am
by jfish26
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 am
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:49 am
NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:31 am
Yes. If NCAA comes at Kansas, they better be prepared to go after Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Arizona, and many many many others.
I mean, Creighton even freaking got involved in this stuff. If that's not proof that everyone is doing it, I don't know what is..
Maybe that is coming down the line. I don't know. What we do know is that right now KANSAS is the poster boy. If you look at the score sheet for the here and now, it sure appears that the ncaa has enough to look at KANSAS.
Isn't this just the first of three trials? It looks bad right now, but KU might not be the poster boy when it's all said and done.
Obviously things can change, but I'll say it again:
the prosecution has asked the NCAA not to do anything until all the trials are over, which could be up to a year from now.
I understand that KU is "the poster boy" right this second, but the heat will dissipate. I would not spend a lot of time worrying right now about immediate action (and I still strongly believe there's a good chance the NCAA does nothing retroactively at all).
In other words: chill out, MICH.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:13 am
by jfish26
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:33 pm
Kyblueblood wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:37 pm
The NCAA doesn’t need proof but do they want to look into all of this, Nike schools included? Do they have the balls to look into Duke and Coach K? No way Zion went there for free. We know Bagley’s got a windfall of cash but it was “legal” to Bagley’s AAU Team. Duke has landed the cream of the crop for a few years. Look into UK as well, Cal seemed awfully confident saying harsher penalties to the guilty and don’t selectively enforce. I don’t know what in the hell he was saying, almost welcoming an investigation of his program.
The ncaa hasn't been able to catch this for decades. They can look into nike all they want, but they're not the fbi with the ability to get phone records. They can't even get bank statements that aren't offered up by the people they're looking in to. The ncaa is not capable of preventing this.
I don't think they've even really
wanted to prevent this; I don't think anyone around the sport has been surprised in the least bit by what has come to light. They made
The Program in 1993 and
Blue Chips in 1994! Myron Piggie was doing his thing before anyone was freaked out about Y2K!
If anyone actually wanted to stop this, they would have a long time ago. The coaches all generally know what goes on. Lord knows the shoe companies and AAU organizers and agents and runners and all those folks know. The thing is, the market was working to do what was inevitable: getting value to players. It just had to do this highly inefficiently, and by way of weird, shady stooges and intermediaries and bag men and hangers-on.
This can all go away so, so easily.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:23 am
by shindig
jfish is going to bribe the NCAA to make this go away guys...
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:28 am
by MICHHAWK
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:04 am
In other words: chill out, MICH.
I'm as cool as a cucumber. I have a pretty good understanding of our situation. I will not be caught off guard down the road.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:39 am
by jfish26
shindig wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:23 am
jfish is going to bribe the NCAA to make this go away guys...
Quick, hand me Cal's phone.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:41 am
by jfish26
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:28 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:04 am
In other words: chill out, MICH.
I'm as cool as a cucumber. I have a pretty good understanding of our situation. I will not be caught off guard down the road.
Ok. I agree you have a pretty good understanding of our situation. I think you also - and there's nothing wrong with this! - think the world revolves around KU.
I think the steroids "scandal" in baseball will prove to be highly instructive of what will happen here (which is to say, for a while new names and details will be noteworthy, but the furor will pass and the sport will move on).
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:50 am
by Deleted User 57
Big problem we may have kids - is that we have a too long and too involved "history" with the NCAA.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:03 am
by jfish26
I really don't think that will matter here. This is not a regular enforcement scenario. I think you can throw a lot of the usual course of action out the window.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:13 am
by DCHawk1
Important to remember, of course, that UNC, Kentucky -- and eVEn cReiGHtoN! -- have their own NCAA histories, some recent, some not.
Heck. Some of these programs might even have received the dEAtH pENALty!
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:05 am
by MICHHAWK
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:41 am
I think you also - and there's nothing wrong with this! - think the world revolves around KU.
100%. Could not care any less than I already do, about the other players in this saga.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 am
by Lonestarjayhawk
It’s not what you think you know; it is what you can prove. The Texts are damning but they prove nothing. The NCAA can prove Preston got paid. But Kansas didn’t pay him or play him when they found out. Maybe the NCAA can prove Adidas gave SDS $2500. But they guy that said that also said Kansas coaches didn’t know. That isn’t going to vacate games. If there was direct evidence proving that HCBS knew or asked for Adidas to give players money, this case would be dismissed. You can’t Defraud someone at their request. If the FBI had evidence proving Self knew they would have been forced to disclose it and print ‘Get Out of Jail cards. The fact that this case when to trial is proof there is no smoking gun with HCBS’s fingerprints on it.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:45 am
by Deleted User 57
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:13 am
Important to remember, of course, that UNC, Kentucky -- and eVEn cReiGHtoN! -- have their own NCAA histories, some recent, some not.
Heck. Some of these programs might even have received the dEAtH pENALty!
Right! And I said, "too long and too involved "history" with the NCAA".
You want to go back 60 plus years? Ok, you're right! Kentucky received the "Death penalty".
I didn't reference it specifically but I was thinking since Self has been at KU.
If we are going to bring up Kentucky in the 1950s then of course we should probably reference KU in 1988/1989.
Then the Roy years too?
I prefer to stick to the Self years at KU.
Now please go ahead and tell everyone what UNC, Kentucky, and Creighton have on us in terms of the number of "violations" during Self's tenure at KU.
Numbers don't really matter do they? Meanwhile, I feel there have been a shit ton of embarrassments and "history" with the NCAA while Self has been at KU.
Go ahead, shoot the messenger - and ignore the guilty.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:47 am
by DCHawk1
Gutter's Mother wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:45 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:13 am
Important to remember, of course, that UNC, Kentucky -- and eVEn cReiGHtoN! -- have their own NCAA histories, some recent, some not.
Heck. Some of these programs might even have received the dEAtH pENALty!
Right! And I said, "too long and too involved "history" with the NCAA".
You want to go back 60 plus years? Ok, you're right! Kentucky received the "Death penalty".
I didn't reference it specifically but I was thinking since Self has been at KU.
If we are going to bring up Kentucky in the 1950s then of course we should probably reference KU in 1988/1989.
Then the Roy years too?
I prefer to stick to the Self years at KU.
Now please go ahead and tell everyone what UNC, Kentucky, and Creighton have on us in terms of the number of "violations" during Self's tenure at KU.
Numbers don't really matter do they? Meanwhile, I feel there have been a shit ton of embarrassments and "history" with the NCAA while Self has been at KU.
Go ahead, shoot the messenger - and ignore the guilty.
Ignore the guilty.
Good lord.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:09 pm
by The Brakeman
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:03 am
What're they going to go after UK Duke or UNC for? Those guys haven't had hard evidence presented implicating them as far as I know.... and remember the NCAA won't always have the FBI doing their digging for them. They can't investigate like the FBI....so if the FBI stuff doesn't directly implicate UK Duke or UNC then I'm not sure what they'd be going after them for.
Obviously they're (Nike schools) doing it too...but that's not the point. The NCAA has shown over the last 2 decades that they're not very good at catching and proving this stuff.
Applying your stated standards:
What is the
"hard evidence presented implicating" KU ? What is the
"FBI stuff" "directly implicating" KU ?
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:22 pm
by hartjack8
I'll help Illinioswildcats and answer for him.
The FBI actually should have absolutely no evidence that KU or its employees are involved. If it did their whole case would be moot.
Re: Shoe money trial
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:32 pm
by Deleted User 57
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:47 am
Gutter's Mother wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:45 am
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:13 am
Important to remember, of course, that UNC, Kentucky -- and eVEn cReiGHtoN! -- have their own NCAA histories, some recent, some not.
Heck. Some of these programs might even have received the dEAtH pENALty!
Right! And I said, "too long and too involved "history" with the NCAA".
You want to go back 60 plus years? Ok, you're right! Kentucky received the "Death penalty".
I didn't reference it specifically but I was thinking since Self has been at KU.
If we are going to bring up Kentucky in the 1950s then of course we should probably reference KU in 1988/1989.
Then the Roy years too?
I prefer to stick to the Self years at KU.
Now please go ahead and tell everyone what UNC, Kentucky, and Creighton have on us in terms of the number of "violations" during Self's tenure at KU.
Numbers don't really matter do they? Meanwhile, I feel there have been a shit ton of embarrassments and "history" with the NCAA while Self has been at KU.
Go ahead, shoot the messenger - and ignore the guilty.
Ignore the guilty.
Good lord.
"Good lord" what?
Good lord is what I say to myself when I go back and revisit all the crap that has happened under Self and then also what the NCAA felt a need to deal with and "rule" on.
I'm an AD and, love him, hate him, anything else in-between, I have to give some thought as to why he's still employed and when is enough enough.
I guess maybe all the neat trophies and rings he enjoys flaunting would make me turn a blind eye to everything.
Which is really the bottom line and all that matters when it comes down to it. Winning & money.
Fuck morals and rules.
It's a big business and the mantra seems to be - "If that’s what it takes".
At any and all costs? Maybe.