Page 4 of 40
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:42 am
by twocoach
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:08 am
Sounds like the cops made the right decision by waiting for help from a boat.
Really? The guy is dead, isn't he? So your theory is that the guy had a better chance of making it until the boat got there if the cops didn't get involved than if they did? Now you're just doubling down on your stance.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:24 am
by Deleted User 863
twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:42 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:08 am
Sounds like the cops made the right decision by waiting for help from a boat.
Really? The guy is dead, isn't he? So your theory is that the guy had a better chance of making it until the boat got there if the cops didn't get involved than if they did? Now you're just doubling down on your stance.
We can agree to disagree, can't we? I think so.
You're just doubling down on your own stance, correct? Not sure why you can, but I can't.
I think there could have been more death, not less, if the cops tried to swim after him.
He willingly crawled down in the water and swam away from the cops....then got a ways out (sounds like it was decent distance, not say 25ft where they could have gotten there easily/quickly) in the lake and realized he couldn't swim quite as well as he thought he could. I don't think the cops could have saved him at that point.
You're welcome to think otherwise. And double down on it if you please. All good with me.
I'm angry at the cops for their words in this instance, but not their refusal to swim after him after they told him not to get in the lake. Sorry if that bothers you.
If a guy jumps off a sky scraper is it the cops job to jump off too and try to grab him/save him? That's about as applicable as the earthquake analogy on the previous page.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:41 am
by ousdahl
regardless of uniform status, it takes a bunch of stone cold MFer to just stand there and watch somebody drown.
then you realize these guys aren't just some bystanders. They've sworn an oath to serve and protect.
could you imagine a firefighter standing outside a burning house like "why should I go in there? I already told them space heaters are risky!"
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:46 am
by Deleted User 863
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:41 am
could you imagine a firefighter standing outside a burning house like "why should I go in there? I already told them space heaters are risky!"
Another bad analogy imo.
If a person runs into a burning house after firefighters tell them "no" because it's not safe, I don't expect (or want) the firefighters to run in there and lose their life too.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:48 am
by twocoach
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:46 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:41 am
could you imagine a firefighter standing outside a burning house like "why should I go in there? I already told them space heaters are risky!"
Another bad analogy imo.
If a person runs into a burning house after firefighters tell them "no" because it's not safe, I don't expect (or want) the firefighters to run in there and lose their life too.
The danger of entering a lake is not the same is entering a burning building. That is ridiculous.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:50 am
by Deleted User 863
twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:48 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:46 am
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:41 am
could you imagine a firefighter standing outside a burning house like "why should I go in there? I already told them space heaters are risky!"
Another bad analogy imo.
If a person runs into a burning house after firefighters tell them "no" because it's not safe, I don't expect (or want) the firefighters to run in there and lose their life too.
A lake is not a burning building. That is ridiculous.
A lake is not an earthquake. That is ridiculous.
This is fun!
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:52 am
by twocoach
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:50 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:48 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:46 am
Another bad analogy imo.
If a person runs into a burning house after firefighters tell them "no" because it's not safe, I don't expect (or want) the firefighters to run in there and lose their life too.
A lake is not a burning building. That is ridiculous.
A lake is not an earthquake. That is ridiculous.
This is fun!
I wasn't involved in any discussion about earthquakes so leave that toddler nonsense to that person.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:54 am
by ousdahl
illy, if you DON'T want cops trying to rescue a drowning victim, then what role DO you want cops playing?
just write traffic tickets?
just cosplay with tactical gear?
have a city of spend $104 million annually on guys who do stand idly and just say "told you so?"
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:58 am
by Deleted User 863
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:54 am
illy, if you DON'T want cops trying to rescue a drowning victim, then what role DO you want cops playing?
just write traffic tickets?
just cosplay with tactical gear?
have a city of spend $104 million annually on guys who do stand idly and just say "told you so?"
I think they should save people drowning in the general sense. That's a strawman.
In this instance, the guy got in the water willingly, and then swam as far away as possible before realizing he was in trouble. I don't think they could have saved him. I don't think they needed to die trying in this particular instance.
I still think they should be fired. For what they said. Maybe for not stopping him sooner before he got too far away. But once he's way out in the water, not sure what they could have done other than call for help from a boat.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:11 am
by DrPepper
I went looking to see if cops are required to even know how to swim. This popped right to the top:
The Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board, which sets police academy curriculum in Arizona and certifies police officers, confirmed that applicants are not required to show swimming proficiency and there is no basic training related to water rescues.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/08/11038108 ... %20rescues.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:11 am
by Deleted User 863
I will say this: if they thought they could have saved him by swimming out there then they should have tried.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:15 am
by ousdahl
it was as simple as, that guy didn't respect their authoritah, so he deserves to drown.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:18 am
by Overlander
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:15 am
it was as simple as, that guy didn't respect their authoritah, so he deserves to drown.
This
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:19 am
by Overlander
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:34 am
by MICHHAWK
his death is a direct result of HIS actions.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:35 am
by Deleted User 863
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:34 am
his death is a direct result of HIS actions.
Fact.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:50 am
by MICHHAWK
i do find it interesting that it is not a requirement that the police in arizona know how to swim. nor do they receive any swim training.
i guess they don't have any real water. so why bother.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:04 pm
by twocoach
https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion ... 545608001/
If you haven't actually watched the video, there was a damn walkway nearly directly above the man who drowned. Police wouldn't have even have had to swim out to the person as they could have jumped in nearly directly next to the guy. And he was no more than 25 feet or so from the shore.
https://universe.byu.edu/2022/06/08/vid ... an-drowns/
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:08 pm
by Deleted User 863
You do realize that's only part of the video/incident, correct?
He continues swimming away.
Re: serve and protect
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:10 pm
by Deleted User 863
If saving him was so easy how come the girl didn't do it herself?
I don't mean that in a smart ass way fwiw.
They didn't try. That's bad. But he didn't drown in the video you just posted. He kept swimming. "How far do you think he's gonna get?"...