Kansas Crimson

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:18 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:51 pm 2000 was strange. The governor of Florida was the brother of a candidate. And the recount was going Gore’s way. The question was what constituted a vote on the archaic punch ballots.

You sound like Trump.

2000 brought election reform because it was so screwed up in Florida. The New York Times recount later indicated Gore had won. So it was not the same thing at all. All votes weren’t actually counted. And the recount was stopped. And we are living the dystopia from the decisions made at that time. We went from a budget surplus to 9/11 and 20 years of national upheaval.

The usa today and Miami herald recounts confirmed bush won. The machine recount confirmed bush won.

But that's not my point. Bringing up Jeb Bush as evidence of fraud is no different than saying there is fraud because the republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough.

You're right that there are no hanging chads this time. But I'd argue we need more reform and more uniformity so this shit never happens again.

There were less than 2000 votes between the candidates, and many spoiled ballots in Florida in 2000. The worst part of the election was the optics of a Jeb Bush in a position to alter the outcome. It was a perfect storm of bad machines, Jeb posturing for his own national run in Florida, and Katherine Harris. Gore also won the popular vote. If anything, the electoral college should have been shelved at that point because it really pointed to a severely polarized electorate. Ohio in 2004 was a study in black voter suppression. 2008 seemed to point to a new era; but the libertarian goofiness of 2010 stays on us like a red wine on a white suit.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:32 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:18 pm
You sound like Trump.

2000 brought election reform because it was so screwed up in Florida. The New York Times recount later indicated Gore had won. So it was not the same thing at all. All votes weren’t actually counted. And the recount was stopped. And we are living the dystopia from the decisions made at that time. We went from a budget surplus to 9/11 and 20 years of national upheaval.

The usa today and Miami herald recounts confirmed bush won. The machine recount confirmed bush won.

But that's not my point. Bringing up Jeb Bush as evidence of fraud is no different than saying there is fraud because the republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough.

You're right that there are no hanging chads this time. But I'd argue we need more reform and more uniformity so this shit never happens again.

I don't think lack of uniformity is the issue here. Trump was not going to admit defeat no matter what. And anything that involves humans and 150,000,000 things (in this case votes), there will be some errors.

If there was uniformity, someone has to be in charge of enforcing it, at which point you have far greater chance of something nefarious that actually is widespread.

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:32 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 pm
2000 brought election reform because it was so screwed up in Florida. The New York Times recount later indicated Gore had won. So it was not the same thing at all. All votes weren’t actually counted. And the recount was stopped. And we are living the dystopia from the decisions made at that time. We went from a budget surplus to 9/11 and 20 years of national upheaval.

The usa today and Miami herald recounts confirmed bush won. The machine recount confirmed bush won.

But that's not my point. Bringing up Jeb Bush as evidence of fraud is no different than saying there is fraud because the republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough.

You're right that there are no hanging chads this time. But I'd argue we need more reform and more uniformity so this shit never happens again.

I don't think lack of uniformity is the issue here. Trump was not going to admit defeat no matter what. And anything that involves humans and 150,000,000 things (in this case votes), there will be some errors.

If there was uniformity, someone has to be in charge of enforcing it, at which point you have far greater chance of something nefarious that actually is widespread.

Much of the suspicion is based on when mail-in votes were counted. Had they all been counted early, Trump wouldn't be able to talk about how he was winning on election night.

At the very least, all in person forms of voting should be electronic so that it's faster and removes the human element.

It was ridiculous to hear the crazy processes involved in reviewing flagged ballots. It's crazy that this is still a thing.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:41 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:32 pm
The usa today and Miami herald recounts confirmed bush won. The machine recount confirmed bush won.

But that's not my point. Bringing up Jeb Bush as evidence of fraud is no different than saying there is fraud because the republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough.

You're right that there are no hanging chads this time. But I'd argue we need more reform and more uniformity so this shit never happens again.

I don't think lack of uniformity is the issue here. Trump was not going to admit defeat no matter what. And anything that involves humans and 150,000,000 things (in this case votes), there will be some errors.

If there was uniformity, someone has to be in charge of enforcing it, at which point you have far greater chance of something nefarious that actually is widespread.

Much of the suspicion is based on when mail-in votes were counted. Had they all been counted early, Trump wouldn't be able to talk about how he was winning on election night.

At the very least, all in person forms of voting should be electronic so that it's faster and removes the human element.

It was ridiculous to hear the crazy processes involved in reviewing flagged ballots. It's crazy that this is still a thing.

I disagree on electronic ballots because of hacking issues.

But, to your first point, imagine being this much of a dipshit:

https://twitter.com/byamberphillips/sta ... 92454?s=21

Now you’re MAD that mail-in ballots were counted late, because the stupid claim-victory plan didn’t work?

Which court Fish? AZ, PA, GA?

Arizona, I think. I don't know how it works from a federal court perspective, where a litigant (through an entity, through counsel) makes an argument or admission in one district where there is related litigation in another district.

Not what I do.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:28 pm Arizona, I think. I don't know how it works from a federal court perspective, where a litigant (through an entity, through counsel) makes an argument or admission in one district where there is related litigation in another district.

Not what I do.

No worries brother, we'll just ask MICH!

in today's episode of "Republican profiles in courage..."

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-tran ... dent-elect

Rubio joins a club of only four other Republican senators who have acknowledged Biden's win. They are Sens. Mitt Romney of Utah, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine and Ben Sasse of Nebraska, who have all also congratulated Biden for clinching the White House.

Speaking of weaponizing.

https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status ... 9881879557

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:32 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:05 pm
2000 brought election reform because it was so screwed up in Florida. The New York Times recount later indicated Gore had won. So it was not the same thing at all. All votes weren’t actually counted. And the recount was stopped. And we are living the dystopia from the decisions made at that time. We went from a budget surplus to 9/11 and 20 years of national upheaval.

The usa today and Miami herald recounts confirmed bush won. The machine recount confirmed bush won.

But that's not my point. Bringing up Jeb Bush as evidence of fraud is no different than saying there is fraud because the republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough.

You're right that there are no hanging chads this time. But I'd argue we need more reform and more uniformity so this shit never happens again.

I don't think lack of uniformity is the issue here. Trump was not going to admit defeat no matter what. And anything that involves humans and 150,000,000 things (in this case votes), there will be some errors.

If there was uniformity, someone has to be in charge of enforcing it, at which point you have far greater chance of something nefarious that actually is widespread.

The greater the uniformity, the easier it will be to develop a wide scale method to cheat. Part of what makes it hard now is that you'd have to cheat hundreds of different systems to steal the election.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:29 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:32 pm
The usa today and Miami herald recounts confirmed bush won. The machine recount confirmed bush won.

But that's not my point. Bringing up Jeb Bush as evidence of fraud is no different than saying there is fraud because the republican observers weren't allowed to be close enough.

You're right that there are no hanging chads this time. But I'd argue we need more reform and more uniformity so this shit never happens again.

I don't think lack of uniformity is the issue here. Trump was not going to admit defeat no matter what. And anything that involves humans and 150,000,000 things (in this case votes), there will be some errors.

If there was uniformity, someone has to be in charge of enforcing it, at which point you have far greater chance of something nefarious that actually is widespread.

The greater the uniformity, the easier it will be to develop a wide scale method to cheat. Part of what makes it hard now is that you'd have to cheat hundreds of different systems to steal the election.

Uniformity doesn't have to mean the same software. It could mean everything goes electronic though. It could mean all states count the same way (start counting mail in ballots and early ballots early)

My biggest gripe is hearing about the ballots that are flagged and then need to be evaluated by 11 people. Why are there still ballots with ambiguities?

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:36 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:29 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 pm

I don't think lack of uniformity is the issue here. Trump was not going to admit defeat no matter what. And anything that involves humans and 150,000,000 things (in this case votes), there will be some errors.

If there was uniformity, someone has to be in charge of enforcing it, at which point you have far greater chance of something nefarious that actually is widespread.

The greater the uniformity, the easier it will be to develop a wide scale method to cheat. Part of what makes it hard now is that you'd have to cheat hundreds of different systems to steal the election.

Uniformity doesn't have to mean the same software. It could mean everything goes electronic though. It could mean all states count the same way (start counting mail in ballots and early ballots early)

My biggest gripe is hearing about the ballots that are flagged and then need to be evaluated by 11 people. Why are there still ballots with ambiguities?

I agree that all states should count their ballots in the same agreed upon order (early mail-in first etc...), that every state should have both early in-person and mail-in ballots available and have the same general deadlines.

a number of western states have been doing 90%+ mail-in for years

why can’t the rest of the country follow suit?

The real reason?

Or the GOP reason?

yes?

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:49 pm The real reason?

Or the GOP reason?

Exactly! Most states did the counting of the mailed ballots received before Election Day as they were received and released those results first. This was the reason Biden jumped to big leads in Texas, Ohio and Florida. This whole vote counting fiasco was self inflicted as they were prevented from counting ahead of time and they were not prepared for the volume of mailed votes.

The solution is very simple and common sense. Which means that they wouldn’t be implemented

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:23 pm a number of western states have been doing 90%+ mail-in for years

why can’t the rest of the country follow suit?

5 states are 100%.

zsn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:45 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:49 pm The real reason?

Or the GOP reason?

Exactly! Most states did the counting of the mailed ballots received before Election Day as they were received and released those results first. This was the reason Biden jumped to big leads in Texas, Ohio and Florida. This whole vote counting fiasco was self inflicted as they were prevented from counting ahead of time and they were not prepared for the volume of mailed votes.

The solution is very simple and common sense. Which means that they wouldn’t be implemented

This was by design. The whole plan was to declare victory the night of the election. Fox ruined it, god bless ‘em.

I need to shower.