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Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:21 am
by TDub
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:19 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:07 am
Which sucks for fans, but, as stated, is devastating to exposure.
Gonzaga does fine
Only in non-con. Which, of course we are talking about conference games.
Gonzaga doesnt play conference games?
Did it hurt their recruiting or exposure?
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:23 am
by Deleted User 89
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:13 am
I'm good with just a nibble.
^^^^^
until KU does better
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:25 am
by CrimsonNBlue
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:21 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:19 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 am
Gonzaga does fine
Only in non-con. Which, of course we are talking about conference games.
Gonzaga doesnt play conference games?
Did it hurt their recruiting or exposure?
They lack exposure for their conference games. COVID and being preseason #1 helped them in 2021 to get on tv more in the very late night spots. It is very evident and KU athletics needs that exposure:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinas ... 123474285d
2016:
https://graphics.wsj.com/table/COUNT_0330
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:28 am
by CrimsonNBlue
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:23 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:13 am
I'm good with just a nibble.
^^^^^
until KU does better
Figure that out later, or not at all, it is too existential. We're desperate for a B1G lifeline.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am
by TDub
#1 recruiting class, title game last year. Theyre doing fine.
Out here theyre on TV more than Kansas.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:30 am
by MICHHAWK
from my fan perspective, i would prefer a BIG 12/aac merger than becoming a member of the pac 12.
BIG 12 adds some combination of: houston, cincy, ucf, memphis, smu, colorado st, byu
and i am good to go.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 am
by jfish26
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:30 am
from my fan perspective, i would prefer a BIG 12/aac merger than becoming a member of the pac 12.
BIG 12 adds some combination of: houston, cincy, ucf, memphis, smu, colorado st, byu
and i am good to go.
Do that, and we're in the minor leagues for good.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 am
by CrimsonNBlue
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am
#1 recruiting class, title game last year. Theyre doing fine.
Out here theyre on TV more than Kansas.
OK. My post was about exposure. You even insinuated yourself that 12:00 AM start times may not be a good thing.
And the TV more than KU thing might barely be true for Gonzaga's TV market, but KU is on national TV much more than Gonzaga. Big Monday or CBS Sports Net at 11:30 EST, what's the better exposure?
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:34 am
by TDub
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am
#1 recruiting class, title game last year. Theyre doing fine.
Out here theyre on TV more than Kansas.
OK. My post was about exposure. You even insinuated yourself that 12:00 AM start times may not be a good thing.
And the TV more than KU thing might barely be true for Gonzaga's TV market, but KU is on national TV much more than Gonzaga. Big Monday or CBS Sports Net at 11:30 EST, what's the better exposure?
Gonzagae exposure is fine.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
by Deleted User 863
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am
InfiniteJ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am
I know I'm being impatient, but it feels more and more like KU is going to get screwed and it feels like the best case scenario at this point is the PAC, because I don't think the B1G is interested.
But does that really even screw us? It's basically a lateral move at worst at this point. We were in the 4th or 5th best conference and that's where we will end up at worst.
but we were also in arguably the best b-ball conference...i’m not so sure that’ll end up being the case when all is said and done
Well any years where we had an argument as best conference was LARGELY due to Kansas always being elite. We don't have that 2nd truly elite program like the ACC does (Duke and UNC)....and until last year our only national titles since the 1970s years were both Kansas.
ACC has 10 national titles since 2000. Hard to top that as best basketball conference.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
by jfish26
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am
But does that really even screw us? It's basically a lateral move at worst at this point. We were in the 4th or 5th best conference and that's where we will end up at worst.
but we were also in arguably the best b-ball conference...i’m not so sure that’ll end up being the case when all is said and done
Well any years where we had an argument as best conference was LARGELY due to Kansas always being elite. We don't have that 2nd elite team like the ACC does (Duke and UNC)....and until last year our only national titles since the 1970s years were both Kansas.
ACC has 10 national titles since 2000. Hard to top that as best basketball conference.
A B1G with KU is right there.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 am
by Deleted User 89
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am
But does that really even screw us? It's basically a lateral move at worst at this point. We were in the 4th or 5th best conference and that's where we will end up at worst.
but we were also in arguably the best b-ball conference...i’m not so sure that’ll end up being the case when all is said and done
Well any years where we had an argument as best conference was LARGELY due to Kansas always being elite. We don't have that 2nd truly elite program like the ACC does (Duke and UNC)....and until last year our only national titles since the 1970s years were both Kansas.
ACC has 10 national titles since 2000. Hard to top that as best basketball conference.
that’s not at all the case
the argument for best b-ball league is because we’ve top-to-bottom been the best, with most of our teams regularly in the top 25...there are no off-nights in league play
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:40 am
by CrimsonNBlue
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:34 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am
#1 recruiting class, title game last year. Theyre doing fine.
Out here theyre on TV more than Kansas.
OK. My post was about exposure. You even insinuated yourself that 12:00 AM start times may not be a good thing.
And the TV more than KU thing might barely be true for Gonzaga's TV market, but KU is on national TV much more than Gonzaga. Big Monday or CBS Sports Net at 11:30 EST, what's the better exposure?
Gonzagae exposure is fine.
Not sure what your definition of "fine" is. Gonzaga vs. San Francisco on an RSN can't come close to covering KU's much larger athletic department budget.
Gonzaga basketball valuation is much closer to Kansas State than Kansas. That is absolutely not lost on KU when navigating this conference re-shuffle.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:41 am
by CrimsonNBlue
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am
But does that really even screw us? It's basically a lateral move at worst at this point. We were in the 4th or 5th best conference and that's where we will end up at worst.
but we were also in arguably the best b-ball conference...i’m not so sure that’ll end up being the case when all is said and done
Well any years where we had an argument as best conference was LARGELY due to Kansas always being elite. We don't have that 2nd truly elite program like the ACC does (Duke and UNC)....and until last year our only national titles since the 1970s years were both Kansas.
ACC has 10 national titles since 2000. Hard to top that as best basketball conference.
Trad said arguably, and I would have a hard time arguing any conference other than ACC has been better than Big 12 over the last decade.
4 different Final Four teams, 3 national championship games and A title winner that is not Kansas.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:45 am
by Deleted User 863
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am
but we were also in arguably the best b-ball conference...i’m not so sure that’ll end up being the case when all is said and done
Well any years where we had an argument as best conference was LARGELY due to Kansas always being elite. We don't have that 2nd truly elite program like the ACC does (Duke and UNC)....and until last year our only national titles since the 1970s years were both Kansas.
ACC has 10 national titles since 2000. Hard to top that as best basketball conference.
that’s not at all the case
the argument for best b-ball league is because we’ve top-to-bottom been the best, with most of our teams regularly in the top 25...there are no off-nights in league play
Sounds more like most balanced or most competitive?
KU won the league every year for over a decade. That doesn't help the argument that it's the best basketball conference imo.
I definitely understand the top to bottom argument. And don't discount the no nights off thing....but outside of Kansas for many of those years a lot of those regular season ranked teams ended up fizzling out in the NCAA tournament.
I just can't honestly put big 12 ahead of ACC and keep a straight face. I don't care if TCU is better than Miami. The top of the ACC is filled with teams who have won national titles in the last 20 years. 5 different national championship programs (if i am counting in my head correctly).
Your argument works way better against Big10 because they lack national champions as well.
I would put the old big 12 safely as the 2nd best conference, but behind ACC.
But again, totally subjective at a certain point based on what weight you give the various factors.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:49 am
by CrimsonNBlue
In last 10 seasons:
ACC: 5 final fours by 4 different schools
Big 12: 5 final fours by 4 different schools
And KU/Baylor got boned by 2020.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:54 am
by Deleted User 863
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:49 am
In last 10 seasons:
ACC: 5 final fours by 4 different schools
Big 12: 5 final fours by 4 different schools
And KU/Baylor got boned by 2020.
If you just go back 1 year it looks even better for big12.
Since 2000 those numbers above won't even be close. They'll have damn near as many national champs as we do final 4 appearances. Maybe more?
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 am
by TDub
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:40 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:34 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:32 am
OK. My post was about exposure. You even insinuated yourself that 12:00 AM start times may not be a good thing.
And the TV more than KU thing might barely be true for Gonzaga's TV market, but KU is on national TV much more than Gonzaga. Big Monday or CBS Sports Net at 11:30 EST, what's the better exposure?
Gonzagae exposure is fine.
Not sure what your definition of "fine" is. Gonzaga vs. San Francisco on an RSN can't come close to covering KU's much larger athletic department budget.
Gonzaga basketball valuation is much closer to Kansas State than Kansas. That is absolutely not lost on KU when navigating this conference re-shuffle.
Their exposure or lack thereof (in your opinion) hasnt had an effect on their recruiting, or prosperity.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:02 am
by CrimsonNBlue
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 am
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:40 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:34 am
Gonzagae exposure is fine.
Not sure what your definition of "fine" is. Gonzaga vs. San Francisco on an RSN can't come close to covering KU's much larger athletic department budget.
Gonzaga basketball valuation is much closer to Kansas State than Kansas. That is absolutely not lost on KU when navigating this conference re-shuffle.
Their exposure or lack thereof (in your opinion) hasnt had an effect on their recruiting, or prosperity.
I am just not sure your point other than wanting to argue with me and even against your original post to which I agreed to and replied. I never argued PAC would kill KU basketball, but it would certainly hurt its current exposure. Which, outside of ACC giant and Kentucky is the best in the business. KU athletic department relies heavily on that as it has a multiples larger athletic department than Gonzaga.
Re: Conference Realignment..?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:06 am
by Deleted User 89
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:45 am
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:38 am
BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:35 am
Well any years where we had an argument as best conference was LARGELY due to Kansas always being elite. We don't have that 2nd truly elite program like the ACC does (Duke and UNC)....and until last year our only national titles since the 1970s years were both Kansas.
ACC has 10 national titles since 2000. Hard to top that as best basketball conference.
that’s not at all the case
the argument for best b-ball league is because we’ve top-to-bottom been the best, with most of our teams regularly in the top 25...there are no off-nights in league play
Sounds more like most balanced or most competitive?
KU won the league every year for over a decade. That doesn't help the argument that it's the best basketball conference imo.
I definitely understand the top to bottom argument. And don't discount the no nights off thing....but outside of Kansas for many of those years a lot of those regular season ranked teams ended up fizzling out in the NCAA tournament.
I just can't honestly put big 12 ahead of ACC and keep a straight face. I don't care if TCU is better than Miami. The top of the ACC is filled with teams who have won national titles in the last 20 years. 5 different national championship programs (if i am counting in my head correctly).
Your argument works way better against Big10 because they lack national champions as well.
I would put the old big 12 safely as the 2nd best conference, but behind ACC.
But again, totally subjective at a certain point based on what weight you give the various factors.
it’s not my argument (re-read exactly what i posted)
that has been the argument for why the Big12 might be better...you’ve outlined the argument for why the ACC might be better
i personally think it’s a bit of a wash...each has their strengths and weaknesses