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Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:33 pm
by Geezer
IMHO, if the NCAA doesn't have anything other than what was testified in federal court, they don't have much of anything.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:40 pm
by columbusdjkc
Geezer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:33 pm
IMHO, if the NCAA doesn't have anything other than what was testified in federal court, they don't have much of anything.
Yeah seems like KU’s opinion can’t really lose. The very outcome of the trial kind of proves (even if it’s not true) that KU didn’t know and was defrauded. I’m not sure how the NCAA can claim some sort of alternate reality where that didn’t just get decided in trial.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:59 pm
by DCHawk1
The problem, of course, is that the NCAA gets to be prosecutor, judge, and jury.
#BITFD
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:01 pm
by jfish26
I mean, I won't get behind a "we were defrauded" defense (although I know KU has to).
I do think it's an outrageous overreach on the NCAA's part to use evidence that was never tested in a criminal proceeding to which we were not a party.
But reason and logic are just noise here.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:13 pm
by Lonestarjayhawk
Focused on a player that never played for the Jayhawks, one player that has already been cleared by the NCAA for not knowing what a hander was doing without his knowledge or consent and random texts that might or might not been taken out of context ..I like our chances
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:29 pm
by jfish26
Lonestarjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:13 pm
Focused on a player that never played for the Jayhawks, one player that has already been cleared by the NCAA for not knowing what a hander was doing without his knowledge or consent and random texts that might or might not been taken out of context ..I like our chances
I agree that it's completely fucking
absurd to make a case against us based on Preston and De Sousa.
"You over there! You lacked institutional control! Your head coach must be held responsible!"
[We never played Preston. We accepted two different de facto suspensions for De Sousa.]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPfsr8BBdA8
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:00 pm
by Deleted User 141
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:12 pm
pdub wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm
This sucks but saw it coming.
The issue is not that we are getting punished but that other schools will get lesser or no punishment.
It's like a police officer arresting you for running a red light when you've seen him/her let people off with a ticket, a warning or completely ignore them.
It's like getting arrested for going 70 in a 25 because the Speed Limit 25 sign from 1907 was stupidly left up on an interstate.
I thought all the interstates were built starting in '56. I dunno.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:57 pm
by twocoach
sdoyel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:21 pm
If you haven’t read the notice of allegations yet, you should. It’s basically regurgitated information from the Federal Trial and a lot of finger pointing at Bill Self for he “should’ve known”... Bizarre findings to me really. But hey, it’s the NCAA. Nothing should surprise us.
This is the only leg that the ncaa has to stand on in its effort to appear to be in control of their member institutions. It's basically double dipping on previous infractions by reciting them as "lack of institutional control".
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:57 am
by Trustee
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:25 pm
I certainly do not envy AD Jeff Long right now. He has a decision to make at some point and it's a Lose-Lose one.
"Grovel and leave" or Grovel, stay, and begin this fight by placing severed horse heads in the beds of the Enforcement Committee"?
If declaring Gassnola a booster came from his wing and not Bill's...yikes. ADs come and go. Bills do not.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:04 am
by Sparko
You can make a case for selective enforcement here in real court. The NCAA is willfully damaging KU’s brand while not doing a damned thing to UK or others. Important to know why the feds took on only Adidas for example. Competitive advantage is something the NCAA appears to actually be pushing here.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:20 am
by jfish26
I can’t imagine any program with a shoe deal is all that excited about the NCAA winning this one.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:08 am
by pdub
I would bet Self did know some of what was going on.
His assistants might have known a bit more.
We very likely knowingly broke the rules - whether you agree with the rules or not.
Now the fact we sat Preston and held out DeSousa, kind of twice, in my opinion, shouldn't warrant a punishment on games played. It doesn't make any sense ( I know the NCAA doesn't make any sense but in this case, even more so doesn't make any sense with that sort of punishment ).
What would make sense is something like giving up revenue from some of those games played or Self sitting some games or loosing a schollie for a year or two and/or a probation period.
If we avoid loosing any wins from the DeSousa season ( he played 20 games ) and get to play in the postseason this year/next year/future years, I think we dodged a crazy-town NCAA bullet.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:09 am
by Cascadia
Cascadia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:57 pm
Oof, what’s wrong with some of you? Nothing significant is going to happen to KU.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:21 am
by pdub
You/we don't know that.
It just so happens to coincide with the NCAA being under fire - and they could make an example of the six schools that violated the rules.
As ous said, it's a kangaroo court, anything could happen.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:28 am
by ousdahl
if they're so objectively worried about the "six" schools that violated the rules, how come they haven't even sniffed the Zion rumblings?
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:33 am
by ousdahl
also, when do all the op-eds start pouring in about who the real crooks are among all this shit?
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:35 am
by NewtonHawk11
This seems to be the biggest thing here.
KU was conservative as possible with Preston and Silvio. NCAA cleared Silvio. So that part seems good. Preston never played a second of regular season ball at KU. Self likely knew about what was going on, he just probably didn't know amounts and the exact specifications.
Common sense would say that KU has done everything right. But the NCAA doesn't do common sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this isn't a big deal. This is a big deal when, as DC mentioned, NCAA is the prosecutor, judge and jury. The fed stuff is thrown out in this stuff. This is all arbitrary to what the NCAA wants, true legal process be damned.
I still expect KU to fight for quite a while, but I imagine that KU ends up vacating Final 4, and has a 1 or 2 year postseason ban.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:40 am
by Deleted User 89
ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:28 am
if they're so objectively worried about the "six" schools that violated the rules, how come they haven't even sniffed the Zion rumblings?
that’s rhetorical, right?
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:52 am
by holidaysmore
NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:35 am
This seems to be the biggest thing here.
KU was conservative as possible with Preston and Silvio. NCAA cleared Silvio. So that part seems good. Preston never played a second of regular season ball at KU. Self likely knew about what was going on, he just probably didn't know amounts and the exact specifications.
Common sense would say that KU has done everything right. But the NCAA doesn't do common sense.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this isn't a big deal. This is a big deal when, as DC mentioned, NCAA is the prosecutor, judge and jury. The fed stuff is thrown out in this stuff. This is all arbitrary to what the NCAA wants, true legal process be damned.
I still expect KU to fight for quite a while, but I imagine that KU ends up vacating Final 4, and has a 1 or 2 year postseason ban.
Where is the smoking gun. An independent investigation didn't find one and neither did the Feds so what does the NCAA have that those previous two didn't. The biggest thing, and what I also thought about was how in the world is KU going to get a fair trial out of this. Clearly the NCAA wants something to be done and there would be no way in hell they could rule without some sort of bias.
Now if what people are saying is true this case will be heard by an INDEPENDENT, THIRD PARTY career litigation / judicial experts called the Complex Case Unit. They will make the final decision on penalties.
Re: KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:02 am
by NewtonHawk11
That is true. The committee of infractions is independent, but still associated with NCAA members.. Basically once KU does the multiple formal appeals, it'll go to the COI and they'll take it from there.
The Division I Committee on Infractions (COI) is an independent administrative body charged with deciding infractions cases involving NCAA member institutions and their employees. Each committee is comprised of individuals serving as volunteers from NCAA member institutions and conferences and individuals from the general public who have legal training. As authorized by the bylaws, the COI has authority to address prehearing procedural matters, set and conduct hearings or reviews, find facts, conclude violations of NCAA legislation, prescribe appropriate penalties and monitor institutions on probation to ensure compliance with penalties and terms of probation, as well as conduct follow-up proceedings as may be necessary. The committee is also charged with hearing the appeals of individuals subject to a show-cause order in Level III cases, as well as other duties as authorized by the bylaws.