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Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:18 pm
by PhDhawk
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:36 am
Has anyone studied a correlation between tournament success and draft position?
Cuz I mean if there is a strong correlation, Mario Chalmers shoulda went lotto...
I don't think he'd ahve been drafter and therefore would not have left if we hadn't won. So it clearly makes a difference.
Then you have people like Donte DiVencenzo, I don't think he was high on draft board prior to Villanova winning a title.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:21 pm
by ousdahl
Ok.
Then by this logic we better hope Wiggins makes it past the first weekend!
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:55 pm
by Mjl
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:21 pm
Ok.
Then by this logic we better hope Wiggins makes it past the first weekend!
Nobody said it is the only factor.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:58 pm
by pdub
Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:55 pm
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:21 pm
Ok.
Then by this logic we better hope Wiggins makes it past the first weekend!
Nobody said it is the only factor.
And Wiggins was the no. 1 overall recruit.
Dumb.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:01 pm
by PhDhawk
Ousdahl likes to go all reductio ad absurdum.
If you want a painful counter-example to wiggins, look at Trey Burke. He's not a top 10 pick if EJ doesn't get the 10 second call and give him the opportunity to become a folk hero and make it to the NC game.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:03 pm
by ousdahl
Oh, it’s certainly not.
But I think there are so many factors that both aspiring pros and GMs and scouts all must take into account, that I’m just not sure how much weight tourney performance really gets.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:06 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
I definitely think that there are many more anecdotes of good tourney performances noticeably helping draft stock than bad performances noticeably hurting draft stock.
Of course, neither guarantees anything and it is all very individualized (nothing Jalen Suggs could do during tourney was going to get him drafted over Cade).
But it is still a lot different than bowl games where it makes a lot of sense for players to sit them out and/or not worry about returning for another season for more tape against good competition. Always an opportunity in the tourney and a bad performance isn't going to kill you.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:09 pm
by Mjl
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:06 pm
I definitely think that there are many more anecdotes of good tourney performances noticeably helping draft stock than bad performances noticeably hurting draft stock.
Of course, neither guarantees anything and it is all very individualized (nothing Jalen Suggs could do during tourney was going to get him drafted over Cade).
But it is still a lot different than bowl games where it makes a lot of sense for players to sit them out and/or not worry about returning for another season for more tape against good competition. Always an opportunity in the tourney and a bad performance isn't going to kill you.
That's a great point, and it reinforces pdubs point that started this, that one factor in returning can be the fact that the tournament can help your draft stock, but likely won't hurt it.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:13 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
Mjl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:09 pm
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:06 pm
I definitely think that there are many more anecdotes of good tourney performances noticeably helping draft stock than bad performances noticeably hurting draft stock.
Of course, neither guarantees anything and it is all very individualized (nothing Jalen Suggs could do during tourney was going to get him drafted over Cade).
But it is still a lot different than bowl games where it makes a lot of sense for players to sit them out and/or not worry about returning for another season for more tape against good competition. Always an opportunity in the tourney and a bad performance isn't going to kill you.
That's a great point, and it reinforces pdubs point that started this, that one factor in returning can be the fact that the tournament can help your draft stock, but likely won't hurt it.
I think if a fringe player is returning to school to try and raise stock in the tourney, then they are taking a major roll of the dice. Of course, what goes along with a fringe player returning is that it would seem to be a lot of fun for that type of player to play on a good team in the tourney compared to a non air conditioned crowd-less HS gym in San Juan, PR.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:14 pm
by PhDhawk
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:03 pm
Oh, it’s certainly not.
But I think there are so many factors that both aspiring pros and GMs and scouts all must take into account, that I’m just not sure how much weight tourney performance really gets.
Yeah, but if you're worried about a guy being able to make the transition from college to pro, then he goes off against a couple of the best teams in the country, maybe your fears subside.
We're talking about a handful of games against the best competition, under the highest stress, with everyone watching, when winning matters most. If you perform well, how could that NOT help you. You'd be crazy not to weigh it more than a non-conference game from sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:16 pm
by pdub
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:13 pm
...compared to a non air conditioned crowd-less HS gym in San Juan, PR.
Tyshawn and Kevin Young!
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:20 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
https://twitter.com/Carchia/status/1398 ... 51713?s=20
2012
5. Thomas Robinson
6. Damian Lillard
9. Andre Drummond
35. Draymond Green
39. Khris Middleton
2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Olidapo
15. Giannis
27. Gobert
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:44 pm
by ousdahl
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:03 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
Cuffe’s pops has to be 6’9”+.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:18 pm
by ousdahl
^^^^
Plus ink!
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:25 am
by NDballer13
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:03 pm
Cuffe’s pops has to be 6’9”+.
My first thought when seeing him was "man, Aqib Talib really added some bulk post retirement."
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:45 am
by CrimsonNBlue
After looking him up, I recall now the recruiting sites saying that Cuffe, Sr. played college ball.
His playing size at St. John's was apparently 6'9" 243--basically De Sousa.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:09 am
by NDballer13
Speaking of De Sousa, I see he finally entered the transfer portal.
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:25 am
by ousdahl
Oh really...odds he pulls a Tristan/Bryce and goes to another big 12 school?
Watch him go to k state LOL
Re: 21-22 lineup
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:30 pm
by PortlandHawk
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:25 am
Oh really...odds he pulls a Tristan/Bryce and goes to another big 12 school?
Watch him go to k state LOL
Lmao, can see anything but that happening.