Kansas Crimson

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:29 pm

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:24 pm and, if your lunatic kid shoots up the school with a gun he got from home, you suffer the consequences.

my kid. my responsibility.

or suffer the consequences.

Well said.

1) The kid supposedly bought the gun/s himself. I don't know where he kept them but does it really matter? He supposedly bought and owned them legally.
2) The kid wasn't a minor. At what age do you feel your child becomes an adult and is responsible for his/her own behavior?
3) How do you feel about spouses? Your wife is an alcoholic, she gets drunk, gets in a car and kills someone, you should go to jail?

DrPepper wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:49 pm Someone here used to argue for required insurance for gun ownership (again, ownership and sales would need to be recorded). Insurance similar to owning a car. It made a lot of sense to me. One of the rationales that I recall was that the insurance companies are very good at figuring out who can properly handle their shit and who can't. Maybe the CDC or NIH or FBI or SED or USA can't figure out how to stop senseless gun deaths, so give the freakanomic folks at the insurance companies a chance to put save a penny and they will figure it out.

That would be me. By no means would it be a silver bullet, but it would (1) preserve individuals' rights (nothing says guns have to be cheap or free), and (2) force some common sense into things.

A 50 year old woman with no record would get handgun liability coverage cheap, just like she would get cheap insurance on a Civic.

An 18 year old man would have to pay THROUGH THE NOSE to get coverage on two AR 15s, just like he would on two Challenger Hellcats.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:20 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:14 pm So...... What would you like them to do in regards to their "lunatic" kids?

i would like them to turn them in. almost every time the signs were there. in big flashing red letters.

this kid from yesterday is a high school senior. purchased two guns the day after he turned 18. posted pictures of those guns on social media with messages.

the signs are almost always there. report your lunatic kid or suffer the consequences.

Turn them in? To who/m?
Right, signs are usually there - after the fact. The majority of "lunatics" do NOT shoot up schools.
Right, the kid was a HS Senior (nothing illegal about that), purchased 2 guns the day after he turned 18 (nothing illegal about that), posted pics on social media (nothing illegal about that).
So his parents should have "reported" their kid for what? Doing nothing illegal?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:40 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:40 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:14 pm

Certainly not ideal, but not many mass shootings in prisons.

I'd rather go too extreme for a while and then scale back.

Then shooters just hang out at their house until after school and then go shoot up a softball or soccer practice. Locking down schools to be like military bunkers isn't the answer at all.

It isn't THE answer. It is certainly part of an answer to help address them.

Sorry, locked doors, buzzer entry, an a police presence, sounds reasonable to me.

The school in Uvalde, TX was supposed to have all of that. Given the repeated failures of such measures to stop an active shooter, it is starting to sound like a waste of money, focus and hope to me.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:50 pm Turn them in? To who/m?
Right, signs are usually there - after the fact. The majority of "lunatics" do NOT shoot up schools.
Right, the kid was a HS Senior (nothing illegal about that), purchased 2 guns the day after he turned 18 (nothing illegal about that), posted pics on social media (nothing illegal about that).
So his parents should have "reported" their kid for what? Doing nothing illegal?

yes. turn them in . they are called RED FLAG LAWS. if a family member is a lunatic and a danger to society, it is your obligation to report.

Alright.
But we can do that AND get weapons built for killing people fast out of the possession of the public.
If a tire is worn down on your car, and you find out your car is misaligned, you want to both replace the tire and fix the alignment.

If you ask me, buying an ar 15 is a red flag.

Overlander wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:40 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:40 pm

Then shooters just hang out at their house until after school and then go shoot up a softball or soccer practice. Locking down schools to be like military bunkers isn't the answer at all.

It isn't THE answer. It is certainly part of an answer to help address them.

Sorry, locked doors, buzzer entry, an a police presence, sounds reasonable to me.

You DO know the quality of the police officers that get assigned to school protection….right?

Maybe we can change that?

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:09 pm If you ask me, buying an ar 15 is a red flag.

YES

No mental health professional, I don't care how many degrees they have, is going to say they can predict who is going to be a killer. Time and time again, under oath, they say they can not do it. So red flag laws are going to work about as well for gun crime as the pull-out method does for birth control (while trouncing on someone's ability to own a gun). That is why other countries have decided to limit the guns instead of using red flag laws.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:40 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:40 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:14 pm

Certainly not ideal, but not many mass shootings in prisons.

I'd rather go too extreme for a while and then scale back.

Then shooters just hang out at their house until after school and then go shoot up a softball or soccer practice. Locking down schools to be like military bunkers isn't the answer at all.

It isn't THE answer. It is certainly part of an answer to help address them.

Sorry, locked doors, buzzer entry, and a police presence, sounds reasonable to me.

The first answer is to destroy the NRA, however it takes. Letitia James in NY has made a good start, but that needs to be Priority #1 if we want to change the massacre murder culture. The current interpretation of the 2nd Amendment was not the interpretation that the current Supremes rely on--not for the first 200 years. I know people who weren't taught that in law school, but the NRA--funded by the gun manufacturers has spent 50 years insisting that mass murder is fine, it's what the Founders intended. Until we get rid of the insanity that is the NRA and the lunatic gun nuts that it relies upon, there's little hope of changing the mass murder culture of this country. We had a membership in the NRA for a year just to see what the propaganda is--it's simply insane. They call with push polls all the time.

And most gun owners don't belong to the NRA, just a bunch of the ridiculously crazy ones.

I don't know how the NRA works, but if we all became members, could we kill it from the inside? Could we do to it what those religious families did to the Ramapo school district (briefly, they got themselves elected to the local school board even though they sent their own kids to private schools; they gutted the public schools: laid off teachers, cut sports, etc; saved a lot of taxes; https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... e-yeshivas).

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:40 pm

It isn't THE answer. It is certainly part of an answer to help address them.

Sorry, locked doors, buzzer entry, an a police presence, sounds reasonable to me.

You DO know the quality of the police officers that get assigned to school protection….right?

Maybe we can change that?

Just a reminder that there are nearly 131,000 public and private K-12 schools in the US. It would take more than a half million armed and trained persons to put 4 in every school. That is a larger number of people than those who are actively serving in the US Army all over the world.

The cost of doing so would be disgustingly enormous, the risks of gun accidents would increase significantly and as has proven out numerous times already, it is not a deterrent in preventing these attacks nor is it an effective way to prematurely end these attacks. the only thing that it accomplishes is that it allows pro gun people to not have to do anything different and it increases gun sales for the manufacturers who produce these weapons of war.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:01 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:50 pm Turn them in? To who/m?
Right, signs are usually there - after the fact. The majority of "lunatics" do NOT shoot up schools.
Right, the kid was a HS Senior (nothing illegal about that), purchased 2 guns the day after he turned 18 (nothing illegal about that), posted pics on social media (nothing illegal about that).
So his parents should have "reported" their kid for what? Doing nothing illegal?

yes. turn them in . they are called RED FLAG LAWS. if a family member is a lunatic and a danger to society, it is your obligation to report.

Again I'll ask, "turn them in" for what?
Yes, if the kid posted on social media that he was going to shoot up a school I would say his parent/s should have "turned him in" - or at least notified law enforcement but I could find an example of "lunatic" behavior in many if not most 18 year olds. Like I said, 99.5% of those "lunatics" don't go on shooting rampages.

DrPepper wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:09 pm If you ask me, buying an ar 15 is a red flag.

YES

You, 99, and I, say/think/feel/believe it's a probably red flag.
A shitload of _____________ (fill in the blank with a negative word) think it's not much more of a red flag than if the kid bought a 6 pack of beer and a carton of cigarettes.
Cause ya know - it's 'Merica and it's my right (some people actually feel obligation) to own an AR-15.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:40 pm

It isn't THE answer. It is certainly part of an answer to help address them.

Sorry, locked doors, buzzer entry, an a police presence, sounds reasonable to me.

You DO know the quality of the police officers that get assigned to school protection….right?

Maybe we can change that?

How? Where are you/we going to find these people?
There is a massive police/law enforcement shortage in this country. For good/valid reasons.
Are we supposed to let convicts/felons out of jail and make them work for not much more than minimum wage?

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:05 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm

You DO know the quality of the police officers that get assigned to school protection….right?

Maybe we can change that?

How? Where are you/we going to find these people?
There is a massive police/law enforcement shortage in this country. For good/valid reasons.
Are we supposed to let convicts/felons out of jail and make them work for not much more than minimum wage?

Pretty accurately describes what I think about putting more armed individuals into schools.

"Police officers have been professionally trained to use firearms, and their job entails being ready for life-and-death crises. Responding to a shooting is part of what they’re expected to do, by virtue of their role, which means they should be expected to be better at handling such a crisis than the overwhelming majority of the population. Yet police on the scene Tuesday sustained injuries, apparently had to deal with the issue somewhat defensively and ultimately needed a specialized tactical unit to confront the gunman. Most crucially, those police officers were unable to prevent the gunman from exacting a massive death toll.

...

How could we expect a teacher — whose job it is to educate children, not protect them from highly motivated armed murderers — to handle the job more effectively in a moment of shocking chaos and terror? At best, supplying a teacher with a gun to confront a shooter is a mandate to have them sacrifice themselves while likely doing little to stop the attack; at worst, the teacher could accidentally harm or kill children, or even be mistaken for the shooter by responding officers."
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opi ... e-n1295693

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:05 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm

You DO know the quality of the police officers that get assigned to school protection….right?

Maybe we can change that?

How? Where are you/we going to find these people?
There is a massive police/law enforcement shortage in this country. For good/valid reasons.
Are we supposed to let convicts/felons out of jail and make them work for not much more than minimum wage?

As I proposed before, make it a required volunteer position as part of being a registered gun owner. We keep hearing about how they want guns so they can protect themselves and their families. So make them walk the walk and volunteer to take a shift per week as an armed security guard at their local school. If you want to put our communities at risk by bring a gun into it them balance it out and help to protect the community.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:50 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm

You DO know the quality of the police officers that get assigned to school protection….right?

Maybe we can change that?

Just a reminder that there are nearly 131,000 public and private K-12 schools in the US. It would take more than a half million armed and trained persons to put 4 in every school. That is a larger number of people than those who are actively serving in the US Army all over the world.

The cost of doing so would be disgustingly enormous, the risks of gun accidents would increase significantly and as has proven out numerous times already, it is not a deterrent in preventing these attacks nor is it an effective way to prematurely end these attacks. the only thing that it accomplishes is that it allows pro gun people to not have to do anything different and it increases gun sales for the manufacturers who produce these weapons of war.

I bet if we imposed large taxes on firearm sales and ammo sales that it would fund a decent portion of that. As well as not over policing certain areas. If we are going to over fund the police let's do it for a good cause.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:18 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:50 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:18 pm

Maybe we can change that?

Just a reminder that there are nearly 131,000 public and private K-12 schools in the US. It would take more than a half million armed and trained persons to put 4 in every school. That is a larger number of people than those who are actively serving in the US Army all over the world.

The cost of doing so would be disgustingly enormous, the risks of gun accidents would increase significantly and as has proven out numerous times already, it is not a deterrent in preventing these attacks nor is it an effective way to prematurely end these attacks. the only thing that it accomplishes is that it allows pro gun people to not have to do anything different and it increases gun sales for the manufacturers who produce these weapons of war.

I bet if we imposed large taxes on firearm sales and ammo sales that it would fund a decent portion of that. As well as not over policing certain areas. If we are going to over fund the police let's do it for a good cause.

Let's do the math on it instead of speculating.
500,000 school security guards @ $50,000 salary per year = Annual salary of $25 billion
I assume that we'd also have to cover the cost of arming them and continually training them.

There is no chance that even a 50% tax on US gun and ammo sales would be "a decent portion" of that cost and there is a 0% chance you could pass a tax even remotely close to that number.