Devon Dotson

[jfish26]

Maybe the better question isn't would cole be better on this team, but how could would Dok have been on that team?

Collins, Taylor, Sleeves, and Reed were all better passers than our current collection of guards. And you'd have Dok playing next to the Morii who were just as good from the perimeter as they are in close.

The flip side is Udoka hasn't really ever been good next to another big, so I don't think I'd say he'd be any better than Cole on that team. The roles of each respective player is quite similar. Marcus hadn't come on yet.

Wasn’t Cole a junior when the twins were sophomores?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Frosh. The "too much effort to dunk" year.

[jfish26]

Frosh. The "too much effort to dunk" year.

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... tball_team

By Cole's junior year, the twins were pretty much fully formed.

I do recall that some advanced stats said Cole's sophomore season was better than his junior season.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Frosh. The "too much effort to dunk" year.

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... tball_team

By Cole's junior year, the twins were pretty much fully formed.

I do recall that some advanced stats said Cole's sophomore season was better than his junior season.

My apologies. I've been talking about Cole's Sophomore year this entire time, not his junior year.

[jfish26]

Yep. He was better as a sophomore. And that was a very similar setup on offense, with one great guard and not a whole lot else.

[pdub]

Frosh. The "too much effort to dunk" year.

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... tball_team

By Cole's junior year, the twins were pretty much fully formed.

I do recall that some advanced stats said Cole's sophomore season was better than his junior season.

My apologies. I've been talking about Cole's Sophomore year this entire time, not his junior year.

I was too.
For some reason in my mind, junior year meant 2nd to last year, and his senior year was not as good.
But yes, Cole's sophomore year is where I was comparing senior Dok.

[Soklous]

My issue with Sophomore Cole, was a lot of his success (in my memory) relies on an automatic 19 footer on the trailer. Something Doke couldn’t do in his wildest dreams. Heck, Cole couldn’t replicate the following season.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I guess 4 year players are my brain's favorite . . .

[pdub]

My issue with Sophomore Cole, was a lot of his success (in my memory) relies on an automatic 19 footer on the trailer. Something Doke couldn’t do in his wildest dreams. Heck, Cole couldn’t replicate the following season.

Yes.
That is a huge reason why I always bring up Cole as my big in these pick your best 5.
He was good on defense, a great rebounder, a top notch rim protector and had an offensive skill set more advanced than our other bigs ( i'm even including 2/3 year Embiid ).

I just don't remember defenses shifting so significantly to stop Cole.
And no one i've seen since i've been watching KU has been so automatic if given the ball at his spots.
( and it doesn't matter to me one bit that they are dunks - points are points - saying it's just a dunk is minimizing what it takes to get said dunk )

[Soklous]

I agree. Points are points. But dunks “can” bring more energy to the game. And when Doke does it, it can “defeat” opponents.

Obviously not a quantitative study, but this season Doke has more intimidation on his side. Whether it’s earned in game, or from the scouting report and physical presence... there have been a handful of wide open paths to the basket, where the opponent stopped at the sight of him, and kicked the ball out. That’s a big difference from years past, but could simply be from such limited seasons.

[pdub]

"there have been a handful of wide open paths to the basket, where the opponent stopped at the sight of him, and kicked the ball out."

I see this a lot.
Or a big tries to back into Dok, realizes it's not going to work, and also kicks the ball out.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I agree. Points are points. But dunks “can” bring more energy to the game. And when Doke does it, it can “defeat” opponents.

Obviously not a quantitative study, but this season Doke has more intimidation on his side. Whether it’s earned in game, or from the scouting report and physical presence... there have been a handful of wide open paths to the basket, where the opponent stopped at the sight of him, and kicked the ball out. That’s a big difference from years past, but could simply be from such limited seasons.

It seems strange that this is first season since 2016 where we've been a Bill Self defense team.

[Soklous]

Personally, I’ve missed it.

Just need more on the ball, forcing bad passes, to shooting the gap runouts. Dotson, Braun, and Ochai need to watch when Marcus starts frustrating the ball. It’s there.

[CrimsonNBlue]

We've all been impressed with Braun and he's doing what I thought he'd do this year. But, to me, he's not going to arrive here until he throws down a hammer on some dude's head.

[Soklous]

Yeah, I’d like to get over the fan reaction sooner than later. But also hope he saves one for Statie.

[NewtonHawk11]

We've all been impressed with Braun and he's doing what I thought he'd do this year. But, to me, he's not going to arrive here until he throws down a hammer on some dude's head.

Oh man, he’s gotten close though. He attacks the basket trying to dunk on someone. Then changes it when the defender pops up and alters the shot.

[pdub]

Braun under/over points @ ksu set to 18.5.

[Soklous]

Perry has the cheat code at the end of the bench.

[Deleted User 295]

Braun under/over points @ ksu set to 18.5.

He's scored double digit points only 3 times this year...but 2 of the last 3 games are in double digits, and averaging 14.3pts over that span....

I'll take the under, but barely. He will get about 10-12 shots even if we still play a handful of minutes with 2 bigs.

[randylahey]

are we comparing dok to cole now? the way dok has been playing defense lately might be second to none. he completely changes the court. shuts down anything in the paint around the rim and his perimeter defense is what has really really impressed me. cole never guarded the pick and roll the way dok has