Kansas Crimson

We were winning games with him this season, we were a top 5 team.
He goes out and then we started loosing.
Not sure why it's so difficult to see the correlation.

This season went to $#!t when The Big Fella went down.

We are a better team with The Big Fella.

We want the Big Fella.

Take a look at our roster right now. We need The Big Fella.

If I could I would hog tie The Big Fella in my basement until the deadline passes on Sunday night.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:22 am The problem is Udoka forces our entire team to change how we play. It's hard to factor in the negative impact of that aspect of his style.

There's a reason that the game is moving away from players like Dok. It's because it's much easier for a smaller guy to try to deal with a bigger guy, than for a bigger guy to try to deal with a smaller guy.

I agree w/ that. Doke hardly played against duke, got scorched against Nova and I cringe to think what he would have been like against Auburn. He's also a huge liability in the closing minutes of every close game which is awful in a single elimination tournament.

But trad is right, Bill has to figure all of that out. Or should have never recruited him in the first place. Bill's made mistakes using Udoka (late game situations, Nova/Duke, playing next to Dedric), and I think it's partly b/c Bill is also getting used to this new style of ball.

We can absolutely be good with Udoka. But we just can't at all count on having Udoka. Especially not if the rumors that his camp won't risk anything. Now a stubbed toe could be season ending. It's more likely that Udoka never plays a full season of basketball again.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:37 am This season went to $#!t when The Big Fella went down.

We are a better team with The Big Fella.

We want the Big Fella.

Take a look at our roster right now. We need The Big Fella.

If I could I would hog tie The Big Fella in my basement until the deadline passes on Sunday night.

You're proving Illy and my point. Losing him during a season is devastating to that season.

And losing him midseason is the most likely scenario.

I agree that he can't be counted on, generally over the course of a season or specifically in close-and-late situations or against certain rosters. But he's a weapon to get a bunch of early buckets, and get the other side in early foul trouble.

I'm not saying anything innovative, but: would rather have him than not.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:42 am I agree that he can't be counted on, generally over the course of a season or specifically in close-and-late situations or against certain rosters. But he's a weapon to get a bunch of early buckets, and get the other side in early foul trouble.

I'm not saying anything innovative, but: would rather have him than not.

Probably the best way to use him is 20 min/game.

Although, his past foul issues was basically his self-imposed minutes restriction. It's just a fragile player.

Loosing any player of his caliber midseason would be devastating.
If Dotson went down this last season it would have been devastating.

I'd rather have him than not have him too. If it's 1 or the other and no other things considered.

BUT having him has negative impacts as well.. it means we aren't likely to get a late commitment from someone coming in who plays that position.....if we can get DMac to develop, AND grab a late commitment from a decent multi year big who can contribute right away, then I'd have to at least THINK about if I'd rather have him or have someone else.

If we have a miracle occur and get SDS then I'd probably rather have SDS and Dmac along with an incoming player as well as Mitch. Defensively I think we can be more versatile with SDS and DMac, although DMac isn't THAT much more versatile than Dok at this point. But seems to be more aware and slightly quicker.

Of course would much rather have De Sousa, but that's not something anyone can feel confident about.

Looked it up: KU has played 111 games in the past 3 seasons. Udoka played in 56 of them. I would have actually taken the under on 50%.

Right now we have 5 schollies to give. I want to keep it at that number.

The Big Fella is the best use of the Big Fella's scholarship for next season.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:10 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:50 am As good as Dok is, and as much as I love him, part of me wonders if we aren't better off in the long run if he goes.

Ceiling is higher with Udoka. But, counting on him for a full season of college ball would be making the same mistake again. Hindsight will say we're better off w/ him moving on. Plus, as we've seen, he's more important for a league title than he is in a single elimination tournament. So, it depends on what you want out of a season.

His injuries haven't been "I am a big guy with bad back/feet" like most big guys. His injuries have been fluky things that happened in practice. I don't think I would label him injury prone, just unlucky.

We have had him for one NCAA tourney and we made the Final Four that year. And we have a ton of scholarships open. I hope we get a chance to roll the dice on Dok's health for another season.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:18 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:10 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:50 am As good as Dok is, and as much as I love him, part of me wonders if we aren't better off in the long run if he goes.

Ceiling is higher with Udoka. But, counting on him for a full season of college ball would be making the same mistake again. Hindsight will say we're better off w/ him moving on. Plus, as we've seen, he's more important for a league title than he is in a single elimination tournament. So, it depends on what you want out of a season.

His injuries haven't been "I am a big guy with bad back/feet" like most big guys. His injuries have been fluky things that happened in practice. I don't think I would label him injury prone, just unlucky.

We have had him for one NCAA tourney and we made the Final Four that year. And we have a ton of scholarships open. I hope we get a chance to roll the dice on Dok's health for another season.

I would say that when Udoka came to KU, he was a full glass of water. We saw the water spill out of the glass to the halfway point.

I'm calling it half empty, you're calling it half full.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:55 am I'd rather have him than not have him too. If it's 1 or the other and no other things considered.

BUT having him has negative impacts as well.. it means we aren't likely to get a late commitment from someone coming in who plays that position.....if we can get DMac to develop, AND grab a late commitment from a decent multi year big who can contribute right away, then I'd have to at least THINK about if I'd rather have him or have someone else.

If we have a miracle occur and get SDS then I'd probably rather have SDS and Dmac along with an incoming player as well as Mitch. Defensively I think we can be more versatile with SDS and DMac, although DMac isn't THAT much more versatile than Dok at this point. But seems to be more aware and slightly quicker.

There are no uncommitted recruits out there who could contribute right away outside of Achiewa. DMac was a top 35 recruit and he was lost for 85% of the season.

The only uncommitted big men left in the rivals Top 75 are #6 Jaden McDaniels (we aren't in on him), #7 Matthew Hurt (picking Duke in a few hours), Achiewa (we are pursuing him hard core regardless of Dok's decision) and #19 Trendon Watford (we are not in on him).

That's it for the entire Top 75. There is a west coast kid at #80 and a K State lean at 98 and that is it in the Top 100. Guys down there aren't contributing right away.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:26 am
I would say that when Udoka came to KU, he was a full glass of water. We saw the water spill out of the glass to the halfway point.

I'm calling it half empty, you're calling it half full.

Um, OK. All I know is that there really don't appear to be any options out there that are even remotely as good as Dok. I hope he comes back.

I am not 100% sure of these numbers, but I think they are close.

We went 15-2 before The Big Fella went down for the season. 11-8 after. Oh boy, we want The Big Fella to return for his senior season.

McCormack was an All American.
Dok is better right now than him and would be this/next season too.
We may not have the chance at a recruit like that, as twocoach said.

We want Dok back.

There is no reason to argue over whether a full-season healthy Udoka is better for KU than another option (save for maybe De Sousa), because there is no argument, the answer is decidedly yes.

Whether the team is better off not having Udoka play 10 games, then lose him the rest of the season--the positives and negatives of that can certainly be weighed.

Of course, it's all moot. There is a firm belief that Udoka's plans to leave were set long ago.

Why does Mich insist on talking like timmuh?

I hear 5D, not timmy.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:39 am I am not 100% sure of these numbers, but I think they are close.

We went 15-2 before The Big Fella went down for the season. 11-8 after. Oh boy, we want The Big Fella to return for his senior season.

Didn't lose a single game when he played with wins over Tennessee, Michigan State, and Marquette. Wofford too. That last one was weird to say, lol.