Kansas Crimson

Grimes had opportunities to play on the ball and if he had impressed Self would have figured out ways to make it work. I can clearly think of times when Dot was in foul trouble and Moore came in and Grimes stayed off the ball.
I’ve been one of the more vocal guys on this board of disagreeing with Self’s decisions but I’m positive that if Grimes was a better option on the ball than Dot and freaking Moore he would have played him there.
This sounds like a guy who underperformed and has people around him who don’t want him to admit it.

twocoach wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm FWIW, Grimes has played way better at the combine than he ever did at KU.

Which is probably the least surprising thing.

He played 32 minutes on Friday and went 1-9 from the floor, including 1-6 from three. He seems like a guy that looks great in workouts and practices but shrinks when the game clock starts.

Was pretty darn big in HS and HS All-American games as well as international competition.
Clearly something happened to him between his senior year of HS and today. Something not good.

Not every kid that is declared a OAD turns out to be a OAD. No need to play the blame game. Sometimes it just is what it is. Can't force it.

Can't jam a square peg into the round hole.

Paul1 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 6:13 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:05 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm FWIW, Grimes has played way better at the combine than he ever did at KU.

Which is probably the least surprising thing.

He played 32 minutes on Friday and went 1-9 from the floor, including 1-6 from three. He seems like a guy that looks great in workouts and practices but shrinks when the game clock starts.

Was pretty darn big in HS and HS All-American games as well as international competition.
Clearly something happened to him between his senior year of HS and today. Something not good.

The competition got better?

No doubt D1 college competition is better than HS competition but I wouldn't say it's better than what he faced in the All-American games.

I found this somewhat interesting....

"I think it was an adjustment period for him," McNeely said of Grimes' freshman year at Kansas. "I think four years playing for us and AAU basketball, he was always utilized as a point guard. Making the transition and just playing solely as an off-guard where he wasn't making the decisions —that was a transition process."
"He continued to get better each and every game defensively," McNeely added. "I was really amazed at his improvement from the first game against Michigan State to the last game I saw him in person up at Phog Allen (Fieldhouse) against Baylor."

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

KU wasn't the best fit for Grimes and his skill set.

Grimes isn't an NBA caliber player and was significantly overrated coming out of HS.

And both true.

Paul1 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:33 am No doubt D1 college competition is better than HS competition but I wouldn't say it's better than what he faced in the All-American games.

Level of intensity plays a factor. You could say the AA games were better competition simply because the individual talent for each player was better, but I'm not putting much weight in a game that ends 146-138.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:44 am

Paul1 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:33 am No doubt D1 college competition is better than HS competition but I wouldn't say it's better than what he faced in the All-American games.

Level of intensity plays a factor. You could say the AA games were better competition simply because the individual talent for each player was better, but I'm not putting much weight in a game that ends 146-138.

He's also a guy who's shown he can look really good in a limited sample size. He looked really good in the exhibition games and against MSU, he looked good in the conference tourney and in 1 or 2 other games.

But his entire body of work suggests he's just not really good. He may have just been on a little hot streak for those all-star games. And maybe he plays better in less structured games. (MSU was the first game of the season, conference tourney was playing games on consecutive days...dude might just be at his best when other teams aren't at their best. Which could be a reason he looks good in the combine games too, as they lack structure.)

Every time one of our OAD doesn't turn out to be OAD, we are declared "not the best fit for him."

Maybe the youngster needs to grow up and work harder.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:52 am Every time one of our OAD doesn't turn out to be OAD, we are declared "not the best fit for him."

Maybe the youngster needs to grow up and work harder.

Again, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

If Grimes is a play-making 2-Guard who needs the ball in his hands to be at his best, this wasn't the best system for him to shine.

If he was an NBA-caliber guard, even in a less than ideal system, that should have been evident, and he still should have been able to have more success at the college level than he did.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:51 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:44 am

Paul1 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:33 am No doubt D1 college competition is better than HS competition but I wouldn't say it's better than what he faced in the All-American games.

Level of intensity plays a factor. You could say the AA games were better competition simply because the individual talent for each player was better, but I'm not putting much weight in a game that ends 146-138.

He's also a guy who's shown he can look really good in a limited sample size. He looked really good in the exhibition games and against MSU, he looked good in the conference tourney and in 1 or 2 other games.

But his entire body of work suggests he's just not really good. He may have just been on a little hot streak for those all-star games. And maybe he plays better in less structured games. (MSU was the first game of the season, conference tourney was playing games on consecutive days...dude might just be at his best when other teams aren't at their best. Which could be a reason he looks good in the combine games too, as they lack structure.)

I (still) think it's in there somewhere.

Needs to readjust expectations. I can see another year at KU helping. I can also see the value in someone like Drew Hanlen, so perhaps it's just time for him to move on.

Back in my day when things were not going my way, I just worked harder.

For the last 4 years people been telling this kid everything he wants to hear. It's now up to him and only him.

Can he improve his game and be a better player than what we've seen? absolutely.

Is his ceiling anywhere near where we thought it was 12 months ago? nope, not even close.

We got fleeced on the illy for michhawk trade.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:21 am Can he improve his game and be a better player than what we've seen? absolutely.

Is his ceiling anywhere near where we thought it was 12 months ago? nope, not even close.

Not his fault that the adults put unreasonable expectations on him.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:24 am We got fleeced on the illy for michhawk trade.

Meh, a toss up.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:24 am We got fleeced on the illy for michhawk trade.

truth

holidaysmore wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:51 pm Grimes had opportunities to play on the ball and if he had impressed Self would have figured out ways to make it work. I can clearly think of times when Dot was in foul trouble and Moore came in and Grimes stayed off the ball.
I’ve been one of the more vocal guys on this board of disagreeing with Self’s decisions but I’m positive that if Grimes was a better option on the ball than Dot and freaking Moore he would have played him there.
This sounds like a guy who underperformed and has people around him who don’t want him to admit it.

I agree with this 100%. Grimes came in about as far away from the dog house as any McD's kid ever has - Self loved him, and had coached him. He was then given every opportunity here (in some cases by necessity, but still).

We're not three (3) years removed from KU thriving with two lead guards. I do not buy for a second that Bill shoehorned him into a perimeter role. I think Grimes did it to himself, by coming in a bit out of shape and then not, for fucking bizarre reasons (if any), not buying in.

I am rooting for this guy, well sort of rooting for this guy but he has some where in not America for the rest of his life written all over him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/283 ... ost#slide8

NBA Draft Projection: Nos. 45-60/undrafted

A bottom-tier athlete turning 22 in October, Dedric Lawson did little to improve his draft case in Chicago.

He combined to shoot 2-of-8 inside the arc during both scrimmages, unable to diminish concern regarding his ability to create separation.

Lawson, whose 8.9 percent body fat was the third-highest, finished bottom three in the sprint, standing and max verticals and shuttle run.

He did make four threes, and his improved shooting gives him a better chance to carve out a role at the next level. But the athletic limitations won't allow for much error.