Paid Time Off (PTO)

[Cascadia]

I'm reviewing a new job offer this week and the PTO schedule seems terrible.

10 days for first 7 years
15 days for years 8 through 14
20 days after 15 years

Everything else in the offer is solid, but I've counter offered to include 15 days PTO to start.

Is that schedule as bad as I think it is?

[PhDhawk]

That's days per year right?

Is that in total, both sick leave and vacation?

Are there wfh options?

[Cascadia]

That's days per year right?

Is that in total, both sick leave and vacation?

Are there wfh options?

I'm a remote employee so it's always work from home and on the road.

Yes to days per year
Yes, a total for sick leave and vacation

[PhDhawk]

It seems low to me. Especially with those time intervals. 7 years is a long time.

Wfh makes it less vulnerable to pandemic type issues so maybe that offsets it.

[shindig]

15 days seems reasonable, 10 days for 7 years would blow. I’m up to 20 days, plus 3 personal days per year and that doesn’t include sick time off. I find it hard to use 20 days though, so always roll over 5.

[ousdahl]

Yeah. That PTO seems stingy.

(ducks)

But maybe if the other perks outweighs that quirk, it might be worthwhile.

Good for you for countering.

(ducks again)

[Mjl]

That's very low these days.

We start with 28 vacation days + 7 sick days. Then one more day a year for each year of employment.

[PhDhawk]

Yeah. That PTO seems stingy.

(ducks)

But maybe if the other perks outweighs that quirk, it might be worthwhile.

Good for you for countering.

(ducks again)

I wish more people knew that they could negotiate.

It definitely beats hoping the government will change regulations for you.

Also, people shouldn't be afraid to negotiate, the worst they can say is no. I am only aware of one example of a person negotiating to the point the offer was rescinded and that took a bunch of counter offers.

[NewtonHawk11]

That's extremely low. Most places I've seen will do 2 weeks for 5 years at most. 7 seems steep. I'm pretty spoiled at my current workplace.

3 weeks for first 2 years.
4 weeks from years 3-5.
5 weeks from then on out.

I'm on the 5 weeks I use a lot of random days off here and there. It's great. Especially on top of the federal holidays. Sick is another like 5 days each year with a cap of 2 weeks.

[pdub]

Get the 15 to start.
This is your best chance to negotiate that in.

[Cascadia]

The other aspect of this is the type of work I do. Basically in charge of business development for AZ, NV, ID, UT, WA, OR, CA, HI, AK and Western Canada. I don't really have a traditional "boss" and the compensation side is.......nice. If business is good, nobody really bothers you

So I get comments like "you know, when you go visit clients in HI for a week maybe you really only work 3 of those 5 days but the company still pays for your meals, travel, entertainment etc"

Which, there is some truth in that.

But I'm still hung up on the 10 fucking official PTO days.

[Cascadia]

That's extremely low. Most places I've seen will do 2 weeks for 5 years at most. 7 seems steep. I'm pretty spoiled at my current workplace.

3 weeks for first 2 years.
4 weeks from years 3-5.
5 weeks from then on out.

I'm on the 5 weeks I use a lot of random days off here and there. It's great. Especially on top of the federal holidays. Sick is another like 5 days each year with a cap of 2 weeks.

This is what I consider to be completely reasonable for PTO schedule

[ousdahl]

Bonus points for a work culture that actually allows you to use PTO.

(Runs and hides)

[jfish26]

I have unlimited* PTO.

[Cascadia]

Bonus points for a work culture that actually allows you to use PTO.

(Runs and hides)

The other thing to consider is how this garbage PTO schedule affects the culture of the company. Makes me think they do not value a work/life balance

[ousdahl]

work/life balance? sounds like Qusdahl shit.

For real tho, yea, it might be a red flag that they wanna take over your life. Is it possible to look up employment reviews or talk to current/former workers there or anything?

Or, maybe the less PTO is cuz you get a lot of perks like the company paying your way for extra days in HI anyway or whatever.

What would be allsome, is if prospective employeEs could request references from a prospective employeR, with testimonials from others who have worked there, just like employers get to request references from former employers for prospective employees.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I have unlimited* PTO.

I found out this week that several of my paralegals and my secretary are going to end up eating a lot of PTO for 2021. That is a failure, and it is not theirs.

[jhawks99]

The company I work for has 10 days no matter how long you work for them.
I negotiated 15 while in the hiring process. My peers have no idea how that got approved.
Previous company was unlimited. I think people actually take less when they have unlimited.

[jfish26]

I have unlimited* PTO.

I found out this week that several of my paralegals and my secretary are going to end up eating a lot of PTO for 2021. That is a failure, and it is not theirs.

Our staff has been excellent about using all available time.

Which is great! But I wish they'd coordinate a little better; too often we've had particular skillsets all be out.

[PhDhawk]

I have unlimited* PTO.

I found out this week that several of my paralegals and my secretary are going to end up eating a lot of PTO for 2021. That is a failure, and it is not theirs.

Actually, I've been crunching the numbers.

Even if your paralegals got 25 days of PTO per year, which is 0.1 X N, where N is the total number of working days in the year.

If instead they only took 2 hours off or 0.25 of one day, that'd be 0.001 X N.

According to randy there is no difference between 0.1 and 0.001 therefore, taking 25 days of leave is the same as taking 2 hours of leave.

So don't worry about it.