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NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:59 am
by pdub
Zac Taylor gets an extension with the Bengals.
Derek Carr wants 40 million a season.
Carson Wentz is likely going to be released - after Indy gave up their 1st and 3rd pick this season - their 1st is 16th which means they likely coulda taken a chance on Malik Willis.
Where does Davante Adams end up?
Allen Robinson?
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm
by pdub
The Pats offseason will at least mostly clarify, I think within 2 years, whether Bill made Brady or Brady made Bill.
I think Brady made Bill.
The Tampa run slightly proved it but Brady had 3 possible no. 1 WRs and a no. 1 TE...but the following season he goes out and almost beats the SB champs without 2 of those guys.
Bill has elevated Patricia's importance. And hired Joe Judge. And they drafted his Brady clone.
It's not fair but I think Bill/Gargamel needs to win a SB in New England or it'll always be you won bc of Brady.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:52 pm
by KUTradition
i think he’d have to win multiples, maybe even with multiple qb’s, to dispel that narrative
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:56 am
by pdub
If he wins a Super Bowl with Mac Jones, that'd be enough for me to put em equal.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:41 am
by twocoach
They are both great. Many really good coaches never succeed despite having an elite QB. You don't have to win without an elite QB to prove you are a great coach.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:47 am
by pdub
I'm not arguing here over his greatness.
He's great.
Likely the GOAT.
But this is more about more clarity of whether Brady or Bill was more the reason Pats won all those titles.
I know you don't like these kind of arguments because you think they are pointless so you can bow out now if you want.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:57 am
by PhDhawk
I think it changes over time.
For that first superbowl, it's almost entirely on Belichek. Brady was an early career, backup who got the job due to injury. Similar for the next two. Brady wasn't even a top 5...maybe not even top QB for the first 3 super bowls. For me most of the credit goes to Bill for the first 3 titles.
Then they went on a drought...maybe the league figured out Belicheck, maybe he cheated less, maybe he stayed the same, I dunno. But Brady was an elite QB for the last 3 superbowl seasons so I'd give him a greater share than the HC on those 3.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:06 am
by twocoach
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:57 am
I think it changes over time.
For that first superbowl, it's almost entirely on Belichek. Brady was an early career, backup who got the job due to injury. Similar for the next two. Brady wasn't even a top 5...maybe not even top QB for the first 3 super bowls. For me most of the credit goes to Bill for the first 3 titles.
Then they went on a drought...maybe the league figured out Belicheck, maybe he cheated less, maybe he stayed the same, I dunno. But Brady was an elite QB for the last 3 superbowl seasons so I'd give him a greater share than the HC on those 3.
I fully agree with this. There is no one conclusion that can be drawn from a 20 year history together. Some NE teams won primarily due to their defense and despite their average QB play from Brady. Others won due to Brady and despite Belichik and others won because of what Belichik could scheme based on Brady's abilities. Every year is different. Belichik has proven to be the GOAT of coaches simply by proving that he can adjust his roster and scheme to fit his roster and win at the highest levels over and over.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:37 am
by pdub
twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:06 am
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:57 am
I think it changes over time.
For that first superbowl, it's almost entirely on Belichek. Brady was an early career, backup who got the job due to injury. Similar for the next two. Brady wasn't even a top 5...maybe not even top QB for the first 3 super bowls. For me most of the credit goes to Bill for the first 3 titles.
Then they went on a drought...maybe the league figured out Belicheck, maybe he cheated less, maybe he stayed the same, I dunno. But Brady was an elite QB for the last 3 superbowl seasons so I'd give him a greater share than the HC on those 3.
I fully agree with this. There is no one conclusion that can be drawn from a 20 year history together. Some NE teams won primarily due to their defense and despite their average QB play from Brady. Others won due to Brady and despite Belichik and others won because of what Belichik could scheme based on Brady's abilities. Every year is different. Belichik has proven to be the GOAT of coaches simply by proving that he can adjust his roster and scheme to fit his roster and win at the highest levels over and over.
Agree.
That said, I think in the public eye, and mine, Brady has the edge because of Tampa.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:46 pm
by PhDhawk
The way a team wins a title is just different from early in Brady's career to the end.
When Brady won his first three, his superbowl winning contemporaries were Trent Dilfer and Rich Gannon. You could win in spite of a mediocre QB.
When Brady won his last 3(4) his contemporaries were Manning Rodgers and Mahomes. QB position became more important.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:50 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:46 pm
The way a team wins a title is just different from early in Brady's career to the end.
When Brady won his first three, his superbowl winning contemporaries were Trent Dilfer and Rich Gannon. You could win in spite of a mediocre QB.
When Brady won his last 3(4) his contemporaries were Manning Rodgers and Mahomes. QB position became more important.
As has been said, Brady had 3 separate Hall of Fame careers. He adapted his game to always compete at the top level.
Belichick is also the best at what he does and made plenty of adaptations. But, while not completely fair to him, he wasn't close to a hall of fame coach before he started Tom Brady. It's probably too hard to separate them like that. Both amazing.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:28 pm
by PhDhawk
Well they both benefitted a ton from frequent and repeated cheating. I think it's hard to deconvolve those three things, player, coach, rampant cheating.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:40 pm
by pdub
Belichick and Brady would be the guys at the Monopoly board placing houses while no one was looking and stealing 100's and 500's from the bank.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:21 pm
by Sparko
Man. Discussion is great and I got nothing to add.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:34 pm
by pdub
Hitchens cut as expected.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:02 pm
by Cascadia
Good roster move to let Hitchens go. Decent player but not at that price.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:32 am
by pdub
There's a couple FA LB's from Denver I think we could spend on but not break the bank if we cut the guys we are expected to cut.
Alexander Johnson and Josey Jewell.
You could also think about bringing back Ingram and, gasp, Justin Houston on a one year deal.
Draft WR, DE and CB.
( unless of course, you let Mathieu go, then you have to prioritize safety )
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:49 am
by UnholyLivingDead
Cutting Frank Clark, which seems to be the expected move, frees up around $13 million in cap space alone. That could go a long way for some of those free agents.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:20 am
by pdub
JFish's at first outrageous scenario of trading Tyreek makes more sense day by day to me but only IF Rodgers leaves Green Bay.
Say the Jets were willing to give their 10th overall and a 3rd round pick this year and a 3rd next for Tyreek. Or the Eagles with their 15th overall and similar picks. You then get on the phone with Davante Adams and lock him in for 25 mill a season for 3 seasons. That's similar money to what Hill will be asking for but now you have a mid to high 1st and other useful picks and an elite WR who is only 2 years older than Hill.
Re: NFL Offseason 2022
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:31 am
by CrimsonNBlue
"Draft CB."
Would probably be a pretty good WR. His off-ball cuts and vision would serve well for route running in the slot, and the vertical and height would be great for the outside.