OFFICIAL MELTDOWN THREAD

[CrimsonNBlue]

Saying this team isn't talented is crazy. You guys focus on recruiting stars a bit too much. This teams best player is a 1st team all american who was only a 3 star recruit. This teams most frustrating player (mccormack) was a 5 star mcdonalds all american

It’s not crazy at all. It’s pretty obvious the lack of high end nba prospects puts a hard lower ceiling compared to some other current college teams.

The USC game was pretty eye opening. So was the Kentucky game. Our A game might not even be a top 10 A game in the country.

[twocoach]

Yes, we have a great class coming in next year, but another Wichita native in Grady. Isn't KJ from Wichita? We don't seem to have much luck with Wichita guys...lol.

And how does Wichita have more HS talent than KC? Last good KC guy was Brandon I believe, could be wrong.

Assuming you're not counting Ochai, the only KC player that wasn't a walk-on between Brandon and Ochai was Travis Releford.

Burlington is probably close enough to KC to consider it KC, so that could add Reed and Braun. Morningstar from Lawrence.

KC has much, much better homegrown talent than Wichita. They don’t always pick KU. Robinson-Earl and Mark Mitchell being guys as of late.

The thing that makes Wichita look like they have a lot of talent is Sunrise Christian Academy but almost all of them are from out of state. The exception will be Gradey Dick who is the best player out of Wichita in a very long time.

Kansas City, though, has players all over the Big 12 and then a ton at smaller schools like Missouri State and other mid-majors.

Better than Perry Ellis who was from Wichita?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Assuming you're not counting Ochai, the only KC player that wasn't a walk-on between Brandon and Ochai was Travis Releford.

Burlington is probably close enough to KC to consider it KC, so that could add Reed and Braun. Morningstar from Lawrence.

KC has much, much better homegrown talent than Wichita. They don’t always pick KU. Robinson-Earl and Mark Mitchell being guys as of late.

The thing that makes Wichita look like they have a lot of talent is Sunrise Christian Academy but almost all of them are from out of state. The exception will be Gradey Dick who is the best player out of Wichita in a very long time.

Kansas City, though, has players all over the Big 12 and then a ton at smaller schools like Missouri State and other mid-majors.

Better than Perry Ellis who was from Wichita?

Yes, Dick is a projected first round OAD player. Perry was almost never on a draft board.

Of course, Dick won’t catch Perry on the KU all time scoring list, so some will remember Perry as the better KU player from Wichita.

[MICHHAWK]

PE will have his name hanging in the rafters one day.

if gradey dick has a better semi pro collegiatelike career at KANSAS

[jfish26]

Saying this team isn't talented is crazy. You guys focus on recruiting stars a bit too much. This teams best player is a 1st team all american who was only a 3 star recruit. This teams most frustrating player (mccormack) was a 5 star mcdonalds all american

I think the best quick proxy for talent is how many rotation guys (>8mpg) you have that will play at least a single minute in the NBA.

This team has...three? And that assumes Wilson does in fact get there, which is very far from certain.

That's pretty shitty for Bill's standards.

2004 - 4
2005 - 5 (DJ missed by 1 mpg)
2006 - 5
2007 - 7
2008 - 7 (Cole makes it by 0.3 mpg)
2009 - 5
2010 - 6 (TRob missed by 0.8 mpg, Withey by 5 mpg)
2011 - 5 (withey missed by 1.8 mpg)
2012 - 3
2013 - 2 (AWIII misses by 3 mpg)
2014 - 5 (AWIII misses by 1.7 mpg)
2015 - 6
2016 - 4 (Diallo misses by 0.5 mpg)
2017 - 5 (my god, Mitch was on this team)
2018 - 5
2019 - 4
2020 - 5 (assuming Ochai and Braun)
2021 - 4 (assuming Ochai, Braun and Wilson)
2022 - 3 (assuming Ochai, Braun and WIlson)

I think it's safe to say this team is absolutely bottom quartile for Bill here, talent-wise.

Average is 4.73.

Optimistically, we're two NBA players short.

[CrimsonNBlue]

PE will have his name hanging in the rafters one day.

Nope.

[shindig]

oh yeah, forgot about Perry Ellis being from Wichita. Great KU player, but didn't play to "our expectations" I guess you could say. I just wonder how good these kids out of Wichita are since several have come in as 5 stars, but just don't have that toughness. But I think it's great to pull in the "best" Kansas talent versus them going to K-State or WSU.

[MICHHAWK]

PE exceeded expectations.

[KUTradition]

no he didn’t, and he isn’t getting into the rafters

[jfish26]

PE exceeded expectations.

Then your expectations aren't high enough. I think his individual career is pretty much right down the fairway of what could have been expected from him.

[CrimsonNBlue]

oh yeah, forgot about Perry Ellis being from Wichita. Great KU player, but didn't play to "our expectations" I guess you could say. I just wonder how good these kids out of Wichita are since several have come in as 5 stars, but just don't have that toughness. But I think it's great to pull in the "best" Kansas talent versus them going to K-State or WSU.

What 5 stars from Wichita? Dick is the only one.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Ellis as a sophomore in HS was ranked in the top 10. From there, he very much did not meet those expectations.

He would have benefited from playing in Self’s new offense—would have turned himself into a good perimeter shooter.

[Deleted User 863]

no he didn’t, and he isn’t getting into the rafters

LOL

There is a decent chance he will end up in the rafters. Concensus AA and 3x all big 12. Plus he's up there on the all time scoring and rebounds lists.

[Qusdahl]

As if this thread couldn’t possibly be any more on point, now we’re debating Perry Ellis, lulz

[jfish26]

Ellis as a sophomore in HS was ranked in the top 10. From there, he very much did not meet those expectations.

He would have benefited from playing in Self’s new offense—would have turned himself into a good perimeter shooter.

I am very far from an Ellis stan, BUT this is an unfair bar. Perry's issue is that he didn't develop a lot physically after that. I don't think it's fair to set expectations until after high school.

[jfish26]

no he didn’t, and he isn’t getting into the rafters

LOL

There is a decent chance he will end up in the rafters. Concensus AA and 3x all big 12. Plus he's up there on the all time scoring and rebounds lists.

Up to Bill if he wants to change the criteria. Consensus Second Team AA isn't presently enough. Nor is 2x 1st Team All Big 12. Nor is "up there" on some lists.

[pdub]

Perry Ellis was 31st in RSCI.
He would just miss the rafters for me.
He just missed the top 25.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Ellis as a sophomore in HS was ranked in the top 10. From there, he very much did not meet those expectations.

He would have benefited from playing in Self’s new offense—would have turned himself into a good perimeter shooter.

I am very far from an Ellis stan, BUT this is an unfair bar. Perry's issue is that he didn't develop a lot physically after that. I don't think it's fair to set expectations until after high school.

I would agree, and I worded it poorly, but I am saying he didn't exceed any fair expectation of him at any time after that.

If you come to KU ranked in the 30's, maybe even 40's, and stay for 4 years, you don't get to "exceed expectations" talk until like Big 12 POY.

[CrimsonNBlue]

no he didn’t, and he isn’t getting into the rafters

LOL

There is a decent chance he will end up in the rafters. Concensus AA and 3x all big 12. Plus he's up there on the all time scoring and rebounds lists.

Up to Bill if he wants to change the criteria. Consensus Second Team AA isn't presently enough. Nor is 2x 1st Team All Big 12. Nor is "up there" on some lists.

I thought it was interesting in a presser last week that Bill kind of tipped his hat on a bright line criteria. When it came to Och, he in more words or less said that he hoped Och got Big 12 POY because that means rafters for him.

[jfish26]

Ellis as a sophomore in HS was ranked in the top 10. From there, he very much did not meet those expectations.

He would have benefited from playing in Self’s new offense—would have turned himself into a good perimeter shooter.

I am very far from an Ellis stan, BUT this is an unfair bar. Perry's issue is that he didn't develop a lot physically after that. I don't think it's fair to set expectations until after high school.

I would agree, and I worded it poorly, but I am saying he didn't exceed any fair expectation of him at any time after that.

If you come to KU ranked in the 30's, maybe even 40's, and stay for 4 years, you don't get to "exceed expectations" talk until like Big 12 POY.

I agree. The baseball resting place for someone like Perry is the Hall of Very Good.