Thanks to DMac

[TDub]

I think Mitch outplayed expectations...at least my expectations

Exceed expectations list rank is:

Mitch
Juan
Och
CB
Dave

Not that Remy or J Will were bad, they just kind of became what I thought.

yea that seems reasonable

[TDub]

I think Mitch outplayed expectations...at least my expectations

Same. For the last 4 years. He ended up being a very servicable back up college big.

Top 10 in blocks all time at KU iirc.

he went from unplayable for 2.5ish years of that to....us fretting over his late season injury this year heading into the tourney.

[pdub]

Grades of players who met or surpassed ( my ) expectations. It's on a curve.

Braun A+ ( I thought he would be the starter that would have the chance of the greatest mpg drop. nope. )
Ochai A- ( I said he'd be a 3rd team AA. 1st team and NPOY candidate surpasses that )
Dejuan Harris B+ ( thought he'd be coming off the bench as a 6th/7th man )
Mitch Lightfoot B+ ( I think I said he'd play 8-10 min but the dude shot 66% from the field )

KJ Adams B ( can I put NR for both these two guys? they kinda did what I expected but I can't give them lower than a B for that )
Zach Clemence B

David McCormack B- ( thought he'd at least be 2nd team B12, score 14 PPG on 54% FG, FF MOP almost brought him up to a B )
Jalen Wilson B- ( his ice cold start puts him here )
Bobby Pettiford B- ( don't know what to do with his injury )

Remy Martin C- ( B12 preseason POY, didn't make any list, thought he'd for sure start )
Jalen Coleman Lands C- ( expected him to be more a factor - maybe this is too harsh )
Joseph Yesufu D+ ( considered lower than this - I thought he was gonna start and play a lot )

[Deleted User 863]

I think Mitch outplayed expectations...at least my expectations

Exceed expectations list rank is:

Mitch
Juan
Och
CB
Dave

Not that Remy or J Will were bad, they just kind of became what I thought.

yea that seems reasonable

JW probably fell short of my preseason expectations actually. I really thought he'd score more than he did. Although a lot of that is likely due to Och and CB being a shit load better than I expected.

But honestly, i thought all our main guys handled their business. Total team effort. Pieces fit. Guys played for the right reasons. Definitely the advantage of very veteran teams.

And it paid off.

[jfish26]

This is absolutely not RIGHT.
You were wrong in this statement.

"Dave is trash. I don’t care that he squeezes in good games from here to there. His floor is Tyshawn’s girlfriend in AFH and he just has too many floor games. We just have to be playing small (Wilson and/or KJ at “5”)...Ok but hear me out: Self is not perfect. It’s ok to admit when you’re wrong. He’s wrong about Dave."

And this one.

"Something has gone horribly, horribly wrong when a guy with these size, tools and pedigree fails - at a school with our development pedigree and resources - to become an "above average college player" (which I'm not sure he is) as a senior."

Lol. This is exactly my point. This was exactly right when I said it. To Dave’s enormous, enormous credit, he got better.

He was not underrated, an awesome player hiding in plain sight, etc. He vastly underperformed his pedigree, and he absolutely killed us, on a fairly routine basis.

And then he got better! And voila, look what happened when he started playing to his size and talent.

[Deleted User 863]

He just suddenly got better?

[Deleted User 863]

Dave scored in single digits in 5 of his last 9 games. During that span he had 3 games with 18min or less (a 10min game and a 13min game).

His 2020-2021 numbers are similar (maybe worse?) than his 2021-2022 numbers. Especially looking at conference only stats from those 2 years.

This "he got better" (relative to the over the top hate) story is not accurate. But winning cures all.

[pdub]

It’s ok to admit you were wrong sometimes.

It’s a trait worth having.

Dave was never just an above average college player ( or not even that ). There are 300 plus colleges with 12 plus players on each of them. He was a top 15 player in a top 3 conference in all of basketball.

He was never trash. Did he play like trash against Kentucky? Yes. So did Ochai. Was he not playing to the level we needed to win a title at that point? Probably not. Did we need to play small? No. We didn’t need to. And we didn’t in actuality. Self wasn’t wrong. He was right with sticking with Dave. And he went to him when it mattered most.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

He just suddenly got better?

"got" or played?
Got - maybe not.
Played - definitely.

[Deleted User 863]

He absolutely played well in the final 4. But he had those type of games throughout his career. It didn't suddenly just start happening.

Of his 8 career games with 20pts or more, only 2 of them came in 2022 (the year, not season). Granted his 2nd highest pt total was on April 2nd. (Full disclosure his highest pt total was against Kansas City, so not quite the same competition).

Of his 19 games with 10 rebounds or more 9 came in 2022 (the year, not season).

Of his 9 games playing 30min or more 4 came in 2022 (the year, not season). None were in the conference tournament or NCAA tournament.

Of his 5 games with 3 blocks or more, 0 came in 2022 (the year, not season).

He absolutely played his best basketball during conference play and after during both of his last 2 seasons. Likely due to early season games having more potential for bad matchups with smaller bigs that he struggled with at times.

Check out his game logs/career splits. He got better as the year went on the last several years.

He saved his best for last with an incredible final 4, i think we all agree....but he also didn't have some magical transformation that gets certain people out of their bad takes on Dave. He only played 18min against Miami. He only scored 7pts against Creighton. He only scored 8pts against providence. Had we lost any of those games the same posters would have piled on Dave.

He also had a 10min game against WVU and an 13min game against TCU in conference tourney.

He was inconsistent, yes. He had bad hands, yes. All fair criticisms. But none of that ever really changed. He had an incredible last weekend and deserved MOP. It's easy to he happy when we are winning. He and DH got a lot of unfair criticism this year imo.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

You can be critical of those you love. KU fans (and Bill Self) were frustrated with DMac. Nothing wrong with that. Of course it was over the top criticism at times but often the criticism was warranted. Just as the current love is warranted - "over the top" or not.

[MICHHAWK]

Big Dave was the best player on the biggest stage.

Big Dave is a legend.

[hoopla]

congrats big fella. wish dmac nothing but health and success on his journey

I made numerous posts this season about how much mccormack will be missed next year when we've got a bunch of young bigs out there. man did he prove me right. just another example of a time randy was right

i feel like there's a rickroll somewhere here...

[hoopla]

This is the dumbest shit ever

Not even close.

Been to the war thread lately?

omg i gotta go look. never occurred to me there were other corners of this blog...

[hoopla]

this thread is hilarious, sometimes we all just have that urge to upset the apple cart. i'm so happy with big Dave, kudos.

[ChalkRocker]

Grades of players who met or surpassed ( my ) expectations. It's on a curve.

Braun A+ ( I thought he would be the starter that would have the chance of the greatest mpg drop. nope. )
Ochai A- ( I said he'd be a 3rd team AA. 1st team and NPOY candidate surpasses that )
Dejuan Harris B+ ( thought he'd be coming off the bench as a 6th/7th man )
Mitch Lightfoot B+ ( I think I said he'd play 8-10 min but the dude shot 66% from the field )

KJ Adams B ( can I put NR for both these two guys? they kinda did what I expected but I can't give them lower than a B for that )
Zach Clemence B

David McCormack B- ( thought he'd at least be 2nd team B12, score 14 PPG on 54% FG, FF MOP almost brought him up to a B )
Jalen Wilson B- ( his ice cold start puts him here )
Bobby Pettiford B- ( don't know what to do with his injury )

Remy Martin C- ( B12 preseason POY, didn't make any list, thought he'd for sure start )
Jalen Coleman Lands C- ( expected him to be more a factor - maybe this is too harsh )
Joseph Yesufu D+ ( considered lower than this - I thought he was gonna start and play a lot )

You grade on a tough curve. sheesh.

[pdub]

I don’t believe in grade inflation.

[MICHHAWK]

BIG 12 conference regular season champions

BIG 12 conference tournament champions

Mens ncaa national champions

A+ season

[NewtonHawk11]

BIG 12 conference regular season champions

BIG 12 conference tournament champions

Mens ncaa national champions

A+ season

One of the only times I agree with Mich.

[randylahey]

Dave would've had more games like what he had in the final 4 if he was healthy all year. Hes a lot better player than he got credit for


Final 4 he dug a little deeper to ignore the pain