Negotiating a salary

[japhy]

and re: "easier to cover an unfilled position," it blows my mind how many high-ranking managerial type positions can go unfilled for months and it's somehow business as usual.

Revenue usually doesn't go down when someone leaves, the people around them take on more work to cover the gap. Business as usual is what you should expect. Once the key position is filled revenue often goes up.

[ousdahl]

Revenue doesn’t usually go down when someone high up on the totem pole leaves

But heck, if I’m about to be one of those at the top of the totem, who gives a fuck.

Now get back to work, rubes! My PTO tripping balls in the Empire isn’t gonna pay for itself!

[japhy]

and, I know this comment is going to absolutely blow some of your capitalist minds, but, I'm taking a flyer on them too!

No you're not.

You can always get a shitty job somewhere else on short notice and aren't out much. The company that hires a flyer and it doesn't work out has invested a year in them and passed on opportunities to hire someone who might have been a better fit in the interim. If the flyer don't work out, that one year or longer clock starts again for the emplooyer. New people cost as much as they produce in most cases. Successful companies focus on retention for this reason. We just finished our strategic planning for 2023. Issue No 1 we all agreed was, "employee retention". And our retention is better than industry average by a goodly amount. Our profit margin is also very much higher than industry norms. We think there is a direct correlation. As long as growth stays high and profitability as well, we have no reason to doubt that.

[ousdahl]

and, I know this comment is going to absolutely blow some of your capitalist minds, but, I'm taking a flyer on them too!

No you're not.

You can always get a shitty job somewhere else on short notice and aren't out much.

no offense but these two statements seem a little contradictory

[ousdahl]

and I wonder how many bidnessses really focus on "employee retention."

cuz you can't focus on that, while also calling so many of your positions "entry-level," "unskilled labor," "why retain when we could pay less to a high school kid," etc.

[TDub]

I think you dont understand the difference between jobs and careers.

anywhos, ill take my condescending ass out of here.

Please just listen to japhy and close the thread.

[ousdahl]

yea, good call, take your condescending ass out of here.

[Deleted User 863]

Maybe you could just make 1 thread for all your weekly life advice needs so there aren't 67 different threads about each random thought that crosses your mind?

[ousdahl]

hey guess what!

got the offer.

guess what again!

They lowballed the fuck out of me. Like considerably lower than the terms we initially discussed.

[ousdahl]

they said they're "firm," so I guess it would be futile to *checks notes* try to get them up closer to the numbers we initially discussed?

but they also provided a timeline for opportunities to advance/get more $$$, so that's something I guess.

And they also explained the reason for the lowball is they don't have as much work for me as they initially thought, and are still gonna be outsourcing much of it to some agency, at least until I get up to speed.

Whatever, it sounds chill, I think I'll just take a flyer on it either way.

[japhy]

they said they're "firm," so I guess it would be futile to *checks notes* try to get them up closer to the numbers we initially discussed?

but they also provided a timeline for opportunities to advance/get more $$$, so that's something I guess.

NOW, is the time when you listen to the chatter on r/antiwork.

Politely decline the job and tell them why.

As I said before, at this point both parties are on their best behavior. If you haven't even gone to work for them and they already renege on their first enticement; salary, there is a good chance they will not follow through on other enticements later. They have no incentives later, you already took the job.

That's my 2 cents. Take the holidays to work on your resume and talk to people in Denver and Colorado Springs about jobs there.

[pdub]

You need leverage to negotiate.
Do you have good experience in the field? Are you in demand?
If this is your first foray into this type of business, you may ( most certainly ) have to understand being 'lowballed'.

[CrimsonNBlue]

They lowballed the fuck out of me. Like considerably lower than the terms we initially discussed.

At least you have an easy decision, then.

[CrimsonNBlue]

If you haven't even gone to work for them and they already renege on their first enticement; salary, there is a good chance they will not follow through on other enticements later. They have no incentives later, you already took the job.

Bingo, will never catch up to what they promised. Later alligator.

[jfish26]

If you haven't even gone to work for them and they already renege on their first enticement; salary, there is a good chance they will not follow through on other enticements later. They have no incentives later, you already took the job.

Bingo, will never catch up to what they promised. Later alligator.

I guess I take a slightly tempered view here.

I think the course of dealings here suggests that you just have to assume the worst, comp-wise. It could well be that, for whatever reason, ous MIGHT still want the job nonetheless.

But what you DON'T get to do, is take the job, hope the comp gets better, and then start another thread about what to do when it doesn't.

Eyes wide open here.

[pdub]

If the job is fulfilling and educational, that's worth a ton in comp.

[CrimsonNBlue]

If you haven't even gone to work for them and they already renege on their first enticement; salary, there is a good chance they will not follow through on other enticements later. They have no incentives later, you already took the job.

Bingo, will never catch up to what they promised. Later alligator.

I guess I take a slightly tempered view here.

I think the course of dealings here suggests that you just have to assume the worst, comp-wise. It could well be that, for whatever reason, ous MIGHT still want the job nonetheless.

But what you DON'T get to do, is take the job, hope the comp gets better, and then start another thread about what to do when it doesn't.

Eyes wide open here.

Sure, you know how they are going to deal with you later.

It's the backtrack that does it for me. First promise already broken. You start, say $10k less than you were promised, your first pay bump isn't going to get you where you should be to start year 2 based on what they promised you. In essence, they just knocked a year or two off your resume and they're not ever going to make it up.

Of course, if you're desperate, you're desperate. I sure as hell wasn't going to read this whole thread to know that much. Then you just use them back--heck that's probably the right play even if they come back and say, ok, you called our bluff, here's what we promised salary-wise.

[ousdahl]

I think I'm gonna call them in the morning and say, when we initially discussed this position we were at these numbers, but then your actual offer is considerably less. And, while I think it's great that you identified a timeline of potential pay increases down the road, I have concerns I'm not likely to actually receive such increases, especially considering the initial offer was lower than initially discussed in the first place. So, could we instead agree to this much, which is more than you offered, yet still only enough to get me back to the low end of what we initially discussed?

At the first interview, they put me on the spot about an expected salary. I tried to flip the coin and ask, what do you have budgeted for the position? They gave me the run-around about how it all depends and blah blah blah, and doubled down on getting me to say a number. So I said a number that was maybe just a tad swinging for the fences - as it should be in that situation, right? - but otherwise reasonably in line with what similar candidates bringing similar experience to similar positions might expect.

And they replied right back, "oh well we can confirm it won't be any less than (this number)," so I thought we were on the same page.

but now it IS less!

But that also comes with them "tweaking" the position to be even less work than initially described, too.

And, as illy has told us all, it's not like I even wanna work that hard, right?

but yea, today went from being really exciting to kind of a gut punch in a hurry.

[ousdahl]

also might throw in some stuff about how much the cost of living has increased in this community, as they're well aware, and how much my rent has increased (btw the landlord just texted once again asking me and beav to remind him what the address to the place is LOL), how much basic things like groceries have increased (for real I paid SIX dollars for a dozen eggs the other day!), and how I want to treat it as a career stop but hesitate to do so if it's less career money and something still closer to paycheck-to-paycheck.

or, I'll just say fuck it, and take the job, and enjoy not working hard, plus the other peripheral perks (the nature of the job means my social and professional contacts will increase in the community pretty quickly by like 2000%, and such)

[jfish26]

If the job is fulfilling and educational, that's worth a ton in comp.

Can be, sure. Up to Ous to decide how much those things are worth, though, to Ous.

Right?