Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:13 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:54 pm If the job is fulfilling and educational, that's worth a ton in comp.

Can be, sure. Up to Ous to decide how much those things are worth, though, to Ous.

Right?

That is correct Scrooge.

Sounds like you want the job. IMO, I think you're only hurting yourself if you take the initial lowball offer, though. I don't think any employer needs to be reminded why a candidate would want what was initially promised. I also doubt they're paying above-market, otherwise you probably wouldn't be disappointed in the offer. I would guess the budget is there, and the majority of (non-desperate) candidates are going to negotiate, they also know that. GL.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:16 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:13 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:54 pm If the job is fulfilling and educational, that's worth a ton in comp.

Can be, sure. Up to Ous to decide how much those things are worth, though, to Ous.

Right?

That is correct Scrooge.

It does seem pretty straightforward.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:06 pm , I have concerns I'm not likely to actually receive such increases, especially considering the initial offer was lower than initially discussed in the first place.

but yea, today went from being really exciting to kind of a gut punch in a hurry.

Their biggest tell was when they told you they are going to outsource your job....for now.

They are going to outsource your job, all of it eventually. It is easier and cheaper to outsource if your job is not part of their core business. If you are support for the core business, outsourcing will make more and more sense as time goes on. Having a new job for one year and then getting "let go" looks worse on your resume than spending the next year working at the same bar you have been working at for five years. Don't end up with something on your resume that causes future HR people to toss your resume because it has a red flag. Job hopping and people who change jobs and don't stick, are red flags.

Trust your gut on this one. This is probably just the first punch.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:09 pmor, I'll just say fuck it, and take the job, and enjoy not working hard, plus the other peripheral perks (the nature of the job means my social and professional contacts will increase in the community pretty quickly by like 2000%, and such)

Didn't see this, so I'll add that this post plus your statement that the position was "tweaked," is why this conversation a lot less to do about money than it would seem. They're shaving experience off of your resume. The money isn't the important part, it's how they view you now and your future progression. So, if you go, check in with yourself often. Get something out of it.

As far as those contacts, that's something that can possibly make up for comp (could other spots too). However, I don't know the Colorado law, but be weary of the impending noncompete.

I agree with those who say that the pay isn't going up much. If you like the job, great. Get your experience and move to the next one in a couple years.

they lowered their offer because they have been tracking your online footprint.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:20 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:16 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:13 pm

Can be, sure. Up to Ous to decide how much those things are worth, though, to Ous.

Right?

That is correct Scrooge.

It does seem pretty straightforward.

But ous certainly doesn't seem like you, just about that $$$, so while it is up to him, or anyone, to judge if money is the most important thing to them, that doesn't mean that me, personally, can't make my decisions about them based on their prerogatives. Hence, Scrooge.

here I'll add that my cost of living as a single childless dood, even in a ski town, is still considerably less than most of you idiots who completely suck at pulling out.

but, let's think slightly longer term:

if, a year or two down the road, once both parties get past that taking a flyer stage, would I have more leverage to negotiate then? And/or just go find somewhere else to flip burgers.

Of course.
And i'd actually, if you don't feel enriched or valued by that time, start looking for other gigs to have as leverage to negotiate with - get yourself an offer and then negotiate with a counter offer.
The game sucks but it's the game.

well, here's another angle. (and don't tell them!)

I was otherwise planning on this winter being my swan song in the area. I quit that vacation rental circus cuz, good money for a ski town tho it was, I just couldn't put with another season of getting bitched at about yall's early checkins.

So, I'm working a seasonal gig that's by no means a career stop, but is very much something I enjoy the fuck out of doing, and simply can't do in most other areas. I'm using it to buy me time as I look for other jobs, and so far, many prospective employers have actually admired the fact I'm doing it.

Then, this spring I was gonna get into the skilled trades. Prob plumbing. I have at least one in on that. And, as we all know, I already bring plenty of experience with laying pipe.

Just ask illy's mom!

If you want to complain about initial salary, go into plumbing, at least around here.
You get paid barely anything until, like many jobs, you get the experience and become a master plumber ( hours and hours as an apprentice ).
THEN you make bank.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:41 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:20 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:16 pm

That is correct Scrooge.

It does seem pretty straightforward.

But ous certainly doesn't seem like you, just about that $$$, so while it is up to him, or anyone, to judge if money is the most important thing to them, that doesn't mean that me, personally, can't make my decisions about them based on their prerogatives. Hence, Scrooge.

It's really odd to come to the conclusion that I, personally, care "just about that $$$"...pretty much entirely because I have a pro-labor opinion that you do not like.

It's not all that often that someone who supports labor over management on a particular issue, without any skin in the game, is accused of being "just about that $$$".

But I suppose odd things happen all the time.

I know your occupation and over the years have gotten a good idea of your mannerisms.
Not very odd.

Ous, did they have legit reasons for continuing to outsource work while bringing you on at the same time? And why do they even want to bring someone on who needs so much time to be brought up to speed, that they have to rebudget the salary, if they could just outsource the work? Are you super anxious to leave your current position, or does this new situation really make sense to you?

DrPepper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:16 pm Ous, did they have legit reasons for continuing to outsource work while bringing you on at the same time? And why do they even want to bring someone on who needs so much time to be brought up to speed, that they have to rebudget the salary, if they could just outsource the work? Are you super anxious to leave your current position, or does this new situation really make sense to you?

These should be your biggest concerns. There are lots of jobs out there right now. Many of them don't have as many red flags attached. You will likely have to relocate to find a better career.

just talked them up to the original numbers nbd

Good luck, I hope it works out.