Kansas Crimson

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:55 am I honestly can't believe this is an argument.

You guys can't even get your argument straight...

one says they're so easy to get they meaningless

the other says they're roo hard to get and it's a privilege to have one.


You two talk amongst yourself, regroup, decide on a strategy and the try again.

zsn wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:59 am

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:55 am I honestly can't believe this is an argument.

You guys can't even get your argument straight...

one says they're so easy to get they meaningless

the other says they're roo hard to get and it's a privilege to have one.


You two talk amongst yourself, regroup, decide on a strategy and the try again.

What part of “the Courts have ruled that it’s unconstitutional” needs explanation? Maybe if you packed the SCOTUS with even more partisan hacks they’ll rule against this. Until then this will continue to be demagogued by the party that has trouble winning a majority of votes.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:12 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:58 am why can’t both be true?

for middle class suburban kids, good fakes are super easy to acquire

for a member of the Navajo nation living in the middle of the rez? entirely different situation

There are a great many people who do not need driver’s licenses, and for whom getting one (or another ID card) is highly impracticable and/or expensive (directly or indirectly). I’m also highly suspicious that adding hoops to be jumped through makes for very easy exploitation of well-meaning rules.

I absolutely 100% understand the good intentions and logic behind requiring voter ID.

My opinion is that, on the balance, the voter suppression that occurs (or would occur) by way of voter ID and other bureaucratic requirements is not close to being justified by the rate of actual voter fraud that presently occurs.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:08 am if "you" find "proper" identification to be an unpopular policy. that tells me way more about "you" than it does the policy. maybe you got something to hide.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:13 am but i digress…

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:08 am if "you" find "proper" identification to be an unpopular policy. that tells me way more about "you" than it does the policy. maybe you got something to hide.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:14 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:13 am but i digress…

thank you.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:08 am you guys seriously believe you shouldn't need a valid ID to vote?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:58 am why can’t both be true?

for middle class suburban kids, good fakes are super easy to acquire

for a member of the Navajo nation living in the middle of the rez? entirely different situation

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:49 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:58 am why can’t both be true?

for middle class suburban kids, good fakes are super easy to acquire

for a member of the Navajo nation living in the middle of the rez? entirely different situation

Ding, ding, we have a winner. Exactly this. For those with means, it is easy to get a license, both real or fake. For those with limited means, limited transportation and access to ID locations and limited documentation, it can be quite a challenge.

And I think that some people forget just how many people were born in the US but never had a birth certificate filed.

https://facetofacegermantown.org/many-a ... n%20Center.

"As many as 7 percent of U.S. citizens – 13 million people – do not have access to the documents that prove their birth and citizenship, according to research by the Brennan Center.

And people with low incomes are more than twice as likely to lack documentation such as a birth certificate that proves their citizenship, according to the center.

That’s partly because of the Southern midwife problem. But even for people who can access their birth certificates, it costs money to secure documents, and poor people preoccupied with food, rent, and heat rarely have the cash to get their papers in order, Austin-Hillery said.

Poor people are often transitory, having to move from place to place to survive, and it’s not uncommon for them to misplace their important papers or lose them to theft, experts say."

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:08 am if "you" find "proper" identification to be an unpopular policy. that tells me way more about "you" than it does the policy. maybe you got something to hide.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:52 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:49 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:58 am why can’t both be true?

for middle class suburban kids, good fakes are super easy to acquire

for a member of the Navajo nation living in the middle of the rez? entirely different situation

Ding, ding, we have a winner. Exactly this. For those with means, it is easy to get a license, both real or fake. For those with limited means, limited transportation and access to ID locations and limited documentation, it can be quite a challenge.

And I think that some people forget just how many people were born in the US but never had a birth certificate filed.

https://facetofacegermantown.org/many-a ... n%20Center.

"As many as 7 percent of U.S. citizens – 13 million people – do not have access to the documents that prove their birth and citizenship, according to research by the Brennan Center.

And people with low incomes are more than twice as likely to lack documentation such as a birth certificate that proves their citizenship, according to the center.

That’s partly because of the Southern midwife problem. But even for people who can access their birth certificates, it costs money to secure documents, and poor people preoccupied with food, rent, and heat rarely have the cash to get their papers in order, Austin-Hillery said.

Poor people are often transitory, having to move from place to place to survive, and it’s not uncommon for them to misplace their important papers or lose them to theft, experts say."

And - not arguing with you at all - the people you are describing are not pulled proportionally from the electorate.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:53 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:52 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:49 pm

Ding, ding, we have a winner. Exactly this. For those with means, it is easy to get a license, both real or fake. For those with limited means, limited transportation and access to ID locations and limited documentation, it can be quite a challenge.

And I think that some people forget just how many people were born in the US but never had a birth certificate filed.

https://facetofacegermantown.org/many-a ... n%20Center.

"As many as 7 percent of U.S. citizens – 13 million people – do not have access to the documents that prove their birth and citizenship, according to research by the Brennan Center.

And people with low incomes are more than twice as likely to lack documentation such as a birth certificate that proves their citizenship, according to the center.

That’s partly because of the Southern midwife problem. But even for people who can access their birth certificates, it costs money to secure documents, and poor people preoccupied with food, rent, and heat rarely have the cash to get their papers in order, Austin-Hillery said.

Poor people are often transitory, having to move from place to place to survive, and it’s not uncommon for them to misplace their important papers or lose them to theft, experts say."

And - not arguing with you at all - the people you are describing are not pulled proportionally from the electorate.

100% accurate. This disproportionately affects lower income and minority citizens.