Kansas Crimson

I’m not on bored with thinking he’s not a good rebounder. He is, he could be elite.

He’s just not a good rim protector- the guy who puts fear into guards who beat our first line off the dribble.

I’d say he’s just barely scarier than DMac.


Dok? Embiid? Withey? Cole? Kanu/DJax?
Nope.
Spoiled sure but that bunch are big pockets of Selfs career.

I'd rank em:

Cole
Dok
Withey
Embiid
Sasha
HD
DMac
Tarik
DJax
Landen

Who else have we had start at center?

In terms of rim protection/interior defense?

I switch Cole with Withey.
Cole was a better player overall ( had actual shots in his arsenal ) but Withey was a block machine.

And Dok? Great at blocking but I think he’s the guy of all of em I most remember people just backing off instead of shooting. They’d just dribble around under or through second guessing. Dok shoulda had more BPG if peeps actually tried to test him more.

KJ's lack of rebounding is kind of infuriating.

Watch him on defensive possessions. Just focus on him. He either just watches the ball or boxes out. But he never goes after the rebound.

He does a lot of really good things. But this is one area where he physically has the tools but doesn't use them.

pdub wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:16 pm In terms of rim protection/interior defense?

I switch Cole with Withey.
Cole was a better player overall ( had actual shots in his arsenal ) but Withey was a block machine.

Yes. You're correct. I didn't check stats, just kind of went off memory.

Holy fuck. Withey averaged 3.6blks in less than 25mpg his Junior year and 3.9blks in less than 31mpg his senior year.

So I'd revise to
Withey
Cole
Dok

Dok and Cole are close. Splitting hairs. Cole averaged more blocks. But like you said, Dok was so big and covered so much area that a lot of times offensive players were like "nah, fuck that".

mjl2 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:53 pm KJ's lack of rebounding is kind of infuriating.

Watch him on defensive possessions. Just focus on him. He either just watches the ball or boxes out. But he never goes after the rebound.

He does a lot of really good things. But this is one area where he physically has the tools but doesn't use them.

It's great to have a guy that does all the little things to help a team win.

It's not great if that's all he does. KJ in a nutshell.

Can we start a "The Way We Were" board and move all the arguing about NIL and professional college teams, etc. to that board? I want to read a link that doesn't turn into an argument about the way the game is ruined and just talks about the games.

Yes.
Go for it.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:04 am

pdub wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:16 pm In terms of rim protection/interior defense?

I switch Cole with Withey.
Cole was a better player overall ( had actual shots in his arsenal ) but Withey was a block machine.

Yes. You're correct. I didn't check stats, just kind of went off memory.

Holy fuck. Withey averaged 3.6blks in less than 25mpg his Junior year and 3.9blks in less than 31mpg his senior year.

So I'd revise to
Withey
Cole
Dok

Dok and Cole are close. Splitting hairs. Cole averaged more blocks. But like you said, Dok was so big and covered so much area that a lot of times offensive players were like "nah, fuck that".

Withey also broke the ncaa tournament record for blocked shots in one tournament. He had 29. Basically 5 a game

mjl2 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:53 pm KJ's lack of rebounding is kind of infuriating.

Watch him on defensive possessions. Just focus on him. He either just watches the ball or boxes out. But he never goes after the rebound.

He does a lot of really good things. But this is one area where he physically has the tools but doesn't use them.

I'm not sure he has the tools. He short and has short arms. He's strong and athletic, but those things kind of offset

I do think he could be a better rebounder

Watching hunter rebound leaves you desiring more. I'll put it that way

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:16 am

mjl2 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:53 pm KJ's lack of rebounding is kind of infuriating.

Watch him on defensive possessions. Just focus on him. He either just watches the ball or boxes out. But he never goes after the rebound.

He does a lot of really good things. But this is one area where he physically has the tools but doesn't use them.

I'm not sure he has the tools. He short and has short arms. He's strong and athletic, but those things kind of offset

I do think he could be a better rebounder

In his defense, he's always played next to 2 or 3 really good rebounders the last 2 years (Jalen HD and KM), and was playing out of position last year at the 5. He also does a lot of defending on the perimeter so he's not always near the rim like a more traditional 4 guy might be.

It's not an effort thing.

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:18 am Watching hunter rebound leaves you desiring more. I'll put it that way

If he were quick, mobile, and athletic he wouldn't still be in college.

Instead he's slow, can't jump, not particularly mobile or agile (or hostile?) and therefor has no future in the NBA.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:23 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:18 am Watching hunter rebound leaves you desiring more. I'll put it that way

If he were quick, mobile, and athletic he wouldn't still be in college.

Instead he's slow, can't jump, not particularly mobile or agile (or hostile?) and therefor has no future in the NBA.

I do think critics of Hunter's rebounding are bringing other gripes to the table.

It is simply false to suggest that Hunter's rebounding is sort of an accident-of-size. If anyone that size could get rebounds at the rate (and level of competition) he does...we would see that happening all over the place.

While there aren't TONS of guys around his size in college basketball, there is a fair number. The fact that Hunter is a better rebounder than nearly all of them tells me that what we're seeing is a combination of (1) Hunter having very good instincts and positioning, and (2) Hunter being adequate defensively such that he can get major minutes at this level (the scores of shitty footers at lesser schools suggests to me that, in the college game, footers are often unplayable at this level defensively).

I think he positions himself well.
He doesn't attack anything out of his area.
Two clear rebounding opportunities last game where he could have nabbed the ball with just a bit more effort...nah i'm good.

There aren't a ton of guys who are 7 foot 2 in college basketball.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:57 am I think he positions himself well.
He doesn't attack anything out of his area.
Two clear rebounding opportunities last game where he could have nabbed the ball with just a bit more effort...nah i'm good.

There aren't a ton of guys who are 7 foot 2 in college basketball.

This.

Positions himself well, but doesn't go after rebounds with much effort or tenacity. And I don't recall him ever really getting rebounds outside his area

And any 7 footer with any athleticism goes pro fast, so there aren't many in college

Zach Edey moves similar to HD.

And he is unplayable in the NBA. Same as Hunter. Although Edey appears likely to at least get drafted.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:57 am I think he positions himself well.
He doesn't attack anything out of his area.
Two clear rebounding opportunities last game where he could have nabbed the ball with just a bit more effort...nah i'm good.

There aren't a ton of guys who are 7 foot 2 in college basketball.

I can't find a great resource here, but - Hunter is averaging 10.7 rpg, and 13.2 rpg/40 (which is a 2.2 rpg/40 increase from last year!).

Gabe Dynes (7'3", Youngstown State) - 3.8 / 11.1
Mathok Majok (7'3", UMASS) - 1.0 / 11.4
Aday Mara (7'3", UCLA) - 2.2 / 8.6
Rocco Muratori (7'3", Stony Brook) - 1.2 / 12.6
Jordan Wilmore (7'3", Austin Peay) - 2.3 / 10.5
Naheem McLeod (7'4", Syracuse) - 4.3 / 11.8
Zach Edey (7'4", Purdue) - 11.8 / 15.2
Connor Vanover (7'3", Missouri) - 2.0 / 8.8
Jamarion Sharp (7'5", Ole Miss) - 2.4 / 10.4

YMMV.

What I take from this is that size alone gives you good-to-great per-40s. But that it's extremely rare for guys this size to even be playable enough (in ways other than rebounding) at the D-I level to get big minutes, let alone at the contender level of the game.

Well those guys are probably also meh to pretty useless on the offensive side of the court.
Hunter is not.

My knock is effort not overall rebounding ability.
He's a great rebounder - he could be even better.

Fine line between more aggressive and wildly picking up silly fouls trying to do too much.