Let’s have a war!

[MICHHAWK]

i'm not concerned about a ww3 coming from this.

[ousdahl]

Would you be if it turned out to indeed be a Russian missile fired into Poland as initially reported, rather than the ol’ bait-and-switch propaganda?

[TDub]

If Russia wasn't sending waves of missiles into a sovereign nation...would Ukraine still be firing Anti-aircraft and missile interception projectiles?

[TDub]

Would you be if it turned out to indeed be a Russian missile fired into Poland as initially reported, rather than the ol’ bait-and-switch propaganda?

um...yes? There then would be the possibility of Article V being invoked.

[KUTradition]

Would you be if it turned out to indeed be a Russian missile fired into Poland as initially reported, rather than the ol’ bait-and-switch propaganda?

if you feel like you got the bait-and-switch treatment, maybe you should be evaluating your sources (sound familiar?)

nearly all of the coverage i read deliberately hesitated to blame russia. in fact, DailyMail is the only one i can recall that actually said it was russian missiles…and even that story reneged on the claim (made in the headline) in the body of the text

[ousdahl]

Oh, I evaluate my sources. Like I've maintained all along, I'm skeptical of everything in this thread.

FWIW, it was Zelensky himself who claimed it was a Russian missile fired into Poland....

(...apparently. I dunno, I don't speak Ukrainian)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26lKZTgSUM4

and, just reading the tweeter tea leaves (awful, I know), but the popular sentiment seemed to quickly go from "definitely Russia who did it" to "even if Ukraine did it it's still Russia's fault"

[ousdahl]

Would you be if it turned out to indeed be a Russian missile fired into Poland as initially reported, rather than the ol’ bait-and-switch propaganda?

um...yes? There then would be the possibility of Article V being invoked.

so why wouldn't or shouldn't it be invoked here?

How much benefit of the doubt do we keep affording Ukraine?

[KUTradition]

Oh, I evaluate my sources. Like I've maintained all along, I'm skeptical of everything in this thread.

FWIW, it was Zelensky himself who claimed it was a Russian missile fired into Poland....

(...apparently. I dunno, I don't speak Ukrainian)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26lKZTgSUM4

and, just reading the tweeter tea leaves (awful, I know), but the popular sentiment seemed to quickly go from "definitely Russia who did it" to "even if Ukraine did it it's still Russia's fault"

i never read Z’s statement

i also didn’t get that as the “popular sentiment”, but whatever

[KUTradition]

Would you be if it turned out to indeed be a Russian missile fired into Poland as initially reported, rather than the ol’ bait-and-switch propaganda?

um...yes? There then would be the possibility of Article V being invoked.

so why wouldn't or shouldn't it be invoked here?

How much benefit of the doubt do we keep affording Ukraine?

do you even know what Article V is?

[MICHHAWK]

most everything wrong in this world is russias fault.

[TDub]

Would you be if it turned out to indeed be a Russian missile fired into Poland as initially reported, rather than the ol’ bait-and-switch propaganda?

um...yes? There then would be the possibility of Article V being invoked.

so why wouldn't or shouldn't it be invoked here?

How much benefit of the doubt do we keep affording Ukraine?

If Russia wasn't sending waves of missiles into a sovereign nation...would Ukraine still be firing Anti-aircraft and missile interception projectiles?

[ousdahl]

If Russia wasn't sending waves of missiles into a sovereign nation...would Ukraine still be firing Anti-aircraft and missile interception projectiles?

yes?

if you'd sincerely like to "determine exactly what the rockets were and who's they were and how it happened prior" and you sincerely "hope they review and have 100% confirmation on where the rocketa came from," then realize Ukrainians were bombing other Ukrainians for years before Russia invaded. Realize there's little oversight of Ukraine's forces, and we really don't know what's ultimately becoming of all these guns and missiles and such gifted by you and me. Realize Ukraine has been a notorious humanitarian crisis for a while now.

Again, NOT THAT THAT JUSTIFIES THE RUSSIAN INVASION!!!!!

and again again, the thing is, I'm just not sure that justifies blindly flooding Ukraine with weapons for years, either. But I know that's just not a popular detail to consider. It's so much easier to just give Ukraine the benefit of the doubt.

[ousdahl]

most everything wrong in this world is russias fault.

lol, here's your popular sentiment, trad.

9 out of 10 mall patrons agree!

[MICHHAWK]

it's our duty as Americans to hate russia.

[TDub]

If Russia wasn't sending waves of missiles into a sovereign nation...would Ukraine still be firing Anti-aircraft and missile interception projectiles?

yes?

if you'd sincerely like to "determine exactly what the rockets were and who's they were and how it happened prior" and you sincerely "hope they review and have 100% confirmation on where the rocketa came from," then realize Ukrainians were bombing other Ukrainians for years before Russia invaded. Realize there's little oversight of Ukraine's forces, and we really don't know what's ultimately becoming of all these guns and missiles and such gifted by you and me. Realize Ukraine has been a notorious humanitarian crisis for a while now.

Again, NOT THAT THAT JUSTIFIES THE RUSSIAN INVASION!!!!!

and again again, the thing is, I'm just not sure that justifies blindly flooding Ukraine with weapons for years, either. But I know that's just not a popular detail to consider. It's so much easier to just give Ukraine the benefit of the doubt.

Wait wait....just so I got this straight.

If Russia wasn't attacking Ukraine and sending in waves of missiles and aircraft.....

Ukraine would still be send up missile interceptors and anti-aircraft defense missiles?

[ousdahl]

um...yes? There then would be the possibility of Article V being invoked.

so why wouldn't or shouldn't it be invoked here?

How much benefit of the doubt do we keep affording Ukraine?

do you even know what Article V is?

"Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked."

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

sooo what's the error range on Ukrainian missiles?

[MICHHAWK]

almost every movie. television show. the bad guys are almost always russians.

[TDub]

If Russia wasn't sending waves of missiles into a sovereign nation...would Ukraine still be firing Anti-aircraft and missile interception projectiles?

yes?

if you'd sincerely like to "determine exactly what the rockets were and who's they were and how it happened prior" and you sincerely "hope they review and have 100% confirmation on where the rocketa came from," then realize Ukrainians were bombing other Ukrainians for years before Russia invaded. Realize there's little oversight of Ukraine's forces, and we really don't know what's ultimately becoming of all these guns and missiles and such gifted by you and me. Realize Ukraine has been a notorious humanitarian crisis for a while now.

Again, NOT THAT THAT JUSTIFIES THE RUSSIAN INVASION!!!!!

and again again, the thing is, I'm just not sure that justifies blindly flooding Ukraine with weapons for years, either. But I know that's just not a popular detail to consider. It's so much easier to just give Ukraine the benefit of the doubt.

Also, just for the sake of clarity.

Lets pretend that Ukraine has been bombing Russia before the war started.


How do you think the missiles still wouldve ended up in Poland.

You DO realize Poland doesn't border Russia right? So Ukraine wouldve has to miss Russia by about 90 degrees to hit Poland.

[TDub]

Pot commited. you cant turn back. So instead you pour more crazy onto the pile.

[digitalkookie]

almost every movie. television show. the bad guys are almost always russians.

Quoting this for posterity...