Season Grades

[ousdahl]

Yeah, if we can segue from that debate, can I just say I think we’d all be thrilled if our lineup was that much more athletic next year.

[Deleted User 89]

i don’t recall TGF ever really playing within the offense

he alway seemed to just try and go all AAU ball and do his own thing

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Because this thread tends to suggest that is something we actually needed. I actually think both arguments have merit.

i agree that both have merit, though it could be that in TGF’s case it is a big part of why he didn’t get more minutes...playing outside of the offense is fine when it results in good things. it’s not so great when it results in turnovers and empty possessions

[ousdahl]

You say “within the offense” as if we had any offense going either way.

[sdoyel]

Season C
Self D

Wilson A
DMac B
Garrett B
Harris B
Braun C
Bryce D
Ochai C
Lightfoot D
Grant Foster F
Enaruna F

[ousdahl]

Can we give Bryce the benefit of the doubt and give him an incomplete?

Dude missed half his freshman year with an injury.

[NewtonHawk11]

Also, the team went through its toughest patch when he was sidelined.

[Deleted User 863]

It’s not that Braun won’t improve. I certainly hope and trust he will.

It’s that TGIF’s upside is so much higher either way.

There is more to upside than jumping high and having long arms.

[Deleted User 863]

Dangit did you edit that and add more before I responded?

Braun is as much an issue with our team as anyone this year. Dude was prone to standing around on offense, hesitant to shoot, afraid to drive and rarely finished even if he did, missed easy chances to make plays, prone to getting burned on d, and was prone to bonehead moments as much as anyone, though - and this is big - he often got to play through them when TGIF woulda got the short leash.

This is a harsh criticism, but welcome to blue blood ball yo. I dunno how you can say Braun should not bear any responsibility as far as “the issue” with this team. I still think Braun is good, and am glad to have him.

There’s a reason why, when TGIF checked in, our offense tended to play with a lot more energy. Dude puts his head down and attacks. He’s also way athletic, which is something this team seemed to lack, and be vulnerable about when other teams were faster.

Crazy analysis.

We played with more energy when TGF was on the floor? Did you keep track on your play hard chart?

TGF was lost out there. Thats why he only played 8min per game on a mediocre team. If he was a good as you have dreamed him up in your mind then he'd have been playing 25mpg.


I do not get your strangely negative views of Braun who is only a sophomore....while simultaneously pumping up a juco transfer who looked 10x worse than Braun.

[Deleted User 863]

And yeah, Braun tends to play within himself which is why he’s getting minutes over TGIF.

But, spoiler alert! If a player has more nba upside then he has more college potential too.

Over the next two years, a team that has TGIF dialed in is gonna have much more upside.

...unless anyone wants to otherwise argue why they’d prefer to spend the next two seasons watching Braun stand there scared to shoot...

It's funny you're assuming TGF has more NBA upside than Braun just because he is more athletic. Braun is a better shooter, passer, and ballhandler.

Let me know when basketball is solely about how high your vertical is (and Braun isn't some unathletic player either fwiw).

[ousdahl]

Thanks illy. You’re so good when you just put your head down and attack. You should have had more posts this season, the bored could have used your energy.

[jfish26]

As the day went by yesterday, I found myself aligning a lot with what DeCourcy said on 810 yesterday morning (paraphrasing): if you just watched the game Monday night, you found yourself less surprised that Kansas got housed by USC (which it did), and more that Kansas earned a 3-seed to begin with. Which it did!

So I give Coach Bill a B. As good as the defense sometimes was, and as hard as the team mostly played, there was never a plan on offense.

And GM Bill a D-, and that might be generous. There were no significant injuries. No unforeseeable departures or unavailabilities. There really wasn't any bad roster luck. Just atrocious roster construction, both in terms of the size/talent, and also how it fit together.

I didn't put much thought into it until I read Mellinger this morning, but if the NCAA would just announce a one-year postseason ban, even a one-year Bill ban, now, we'd be recruiting rising high school seniors (2022) this summer selling a clean slate for when they'd arrive.

[ousdahl]

Yeah, coach Bill was better than GM
Bill this year for sure.

Silvio’s departure was about as well timed as Marty frankamp. You have to figure he was slated to play a role (an above the rim big man WTF is that?!), but by the time he got shown the door, it was too late to replace. And maybe it was just bad timing, but how long did the staff know Silvio was facing a felony charge from last January?

And going all in on a couple of not particularly lauded local kids on the wings. Would it have killed us to have recruited outside the state of KS at the 2/3?

Oh, we did? TGIF was a juco star, ok cool...but in a perfect world, isn’t part of the point of a juco transfer that they’re gonna be more ready to contribute than, say, a western KS underclassman? And yet, we brought in a juco transfer as an apparent project to bury on the bench?

I’ll still give Bryce an incomplete cuz an injury in perhaps the most important part of your freshman year is just tough luck.

But still, even our stud burger boy freshman this year was yet another guard who can’t shoot. Didn’t we already have enough guards who can’t shoot? Even our guards who can shoot are somehow afraid to.

[UnholyLivingDead]

Just my opinion, and I know I'm risking getting screamed off the board for this, but I think you are all grading Self too low for this season. He absolutely knew what this group was and he knew they would have some major limitations. The fact that he coached this team, which is probably one of the 5 worst KU teams in my lifetime, to a 2nd place finish in the Big 12, a big win over Baylor, and earned a 3 seed, means he actually did quite a good job coaching this team. Looking back on it, it's not a stretch to say this group achieved more than they probably should have. But that's just the way I see it.

[ousdahl]

just kidding. That’s good perspective. We’re spoiled.

Btw I love your user name. \m/

[Leawood]

In this Covid season, I think Self got the kids to reach their ceiling. That’s all we can request. Nobody is going to remember the USC score. And I expect there will be payback.

I remember when WSU beat KU in New Orleans and the manager of Ruthie’s Keyhole in Mission put a bumper sticker on the wall proclaiming the score. Then, when Larry Brown became coach, after prodding from Wichita alums to play WSU to shut them up, LB agreed. KU kicked the shit out of WSU on at least two occasions when they had Xavier McDaniel.

I’m expecting something similar in the future.

Let’s just be grateful we had a season.

I’ve turned my attention to the Royals.

[jfish26]

Yeah, coach Bill was better than GM
Bill this year for sure.

Silvio’s departure was about as well timed as Marty frankamp. You have to figure he was slated to play a role (an above the rim big man WTF is that?!), but by the time he got shown the door, it was too late to replace. And maybe it was just bad timing, but how long did the staff know Silvio was facing a felony charge from last January?

And going all in on a couple of not particularly lauded local kids on the wings. Would it have killed us to have recruited outside the state of KS at the 2/3?

Oh, we did? TGIF was a juco star, ok cool...but in a perfect world, isn’t part of the point of a juco transfer that they’re gonna be more ready to contribute than, say, a western KS underclassman? And yet, we brought in a juco transfer as an apparent project to bury on the bench?

I’ll still give Bryce an incomplete cuz an injury in perhaps the most important part of your freshman year is just tough luck.

But still, even our stud burger boy freshman this year was yet another guard who can’t shoot. Didn’t we already have enough guards who can’t shoot? Even our guards who can shoot are somehow afraid to.

I tend to think Bill was never counting on him.

[ousdahl]

Maybe.

He was at least counting on him in spring 2018, when he rushed him to campus so we didn’t have to finish the season with our only post depth being Mitch.

but it’s been a rough go of it since

[Deleted User 863]

Season = C

Self = C

Jalen = B+
DMac = B
Och = B
Braun = B
MG = C
Dajuan = C
Bryce = C-
Rest of bench = F

[NDballer13]

I'm surprised so many people have Harris in the Cs. I would love to go back to preseason threads and see what most of you guys had as expectations for him. Based on expectation, I'd have him at the top with Wilson, personally. A good argument can be made the team was a lot better when he was on the floor and I highly doubt any person on this board was claiming that would be the case in October.

[PhDhawk]

As the day went by yesterday, I found myself aligning a lot with what DeCourcy said on 810 yesterday morning (paraphrasing): if you just watched the game Monday night, you found yourself less surprised that Kansas got housed by USC (which it did), and more that Kansas earned a 3-seed to begin with. Which it did!

So I give Coach Bill a B. As good as the defense sometimes was, and as hard as the team mostly played, there was never a plan on offense.

And GM Bill a D-, and that might be generous. There were no significant injuries. No unforeseeable departures or unavailabilities. There really wasn't any bad roster luck. Just atrocious roster construction, both in terms of the size/talent, and also how it fit together.

I didn't put much thought into it until I read Mellinger this morning, but if the NCAA would just announce a one-year postseason ban, even a one-year Bill ban, now, we'd be recruiting rising high school seniors (2022) this summer selling a clean slate for when they'd arrive.

yeah, yesterday a couple posters basically said that based on the teams/seasons he's had we should have more than one title.

But, in doing that, you're ignoring the accomplishment, which is all those great teams/seasons.

But...I think one thing that's being overlooked, that I've tried to articulate but not sure I ever have is that part of our high seeding is due to successful strategy, position.

We always schedule the top teams from smaller conferences for out cupcake games. So, we get someone like Iona because that's a team we might play in the tournament. But it helps our SOS out because that means we're playing a top-150 team instead of someone closer to 300. But at the end of the day, that's still a game we should and usually DO win (especially since they're almost always at AFH). But we get 3-4 wins that way while other teams get 4-5 off teams from the same conference but not quite as good. In both cases teams are getting wins against lesser teams, but ours make us look better based on numbers.

Same with our OOC schedule against other majors, it's almost always stuff like the Champions classic, or top teams at Maui, or Gonzaga, etc. So, these are huge for our seeding when we win them and don't hurt us at all when we loose. Not everyone can get as many of these games as we do.

We play in the Big12, which helps our seeding because the strength of the Big12 is in not having many bad teams to drag you down piling up wins outside of the top 100 or top 150. Other conferences, especially the giant football majors have more unimpressive wins on their resume, even though the top end of their conference is probably similar.

So, when we've had teams that were 1 seeds, I think we usually earned it. But for our not-so great years, I think we tend to be overseeded a slot or two just based on scheduling factors. This raises expectations for teams that maybe aren't as good. Obviously it's better to be overseeded than underseeded, but I think this is a factor in our round of 32 type losses.

tl;dr I think in our down years we get slightly over seeded because of our schedule.